I get these pretty regularly. This particular one was a response to me on a video about Eron Gjoni’s bullshit. MRA’s are doing the job Eron wants them to do. It’s not only his ex girlfriend that will get violence directed at her but so will other women who point out the violence.
Many women leave the internet and some, like Anita Sarkeesian, have to leave their homes due to MRA violence. Three days ago, AVFM wrote another article about Anita in essence to turn the violence up another notch.
Here are the tweets that caused Anita and her family to leave her home for safety:
I usually don’t share the really scary stuff. But it’s important for folks to know how bad it gets [TRIGGER WARNING] pic.twitter.com/u6b3i0fysI
— Feminist Frequency (@femfreq) August 27, 2014
Women are told to be silent or else they’ll be murdered by men. These MRA’s and other men from the ‘manosphere’ are extremely violent. Many of them are on Youtube, which is where this comment came from. At one point my audience on Youtube was over 90% male. Two thirds of Youtube users are male as of the first quarter of 2013. I think it’s actually higher than that since many guys on Youtube make sock accounts that are female.
While the male dominated MRA-rich gamer community does everything in its power to keep women from entering their ‘male space’ a female game designer, Zoe Quinn, was publicly sex shamed by her dating partner and gamer Eron Gjoni. Please, excuse me for this long post but this needs to be said.
I asked myself ‘Does this even fucking matter?’ ‘Do I care what he says?’ Of course not. All these lame-ass attempts to correct me on what he considers ‘facts’ doesn’t change this one bit and it’s just more mansplaining to justify the cruelty and violence he’s trying to enact on Zoe.
You see dude, I don’t care if she REALLY did sleep with other guys which I’m not taking from your mouth anyway. You’re playing victim here when you are the abusive asshole.
Oh and one more thing: if you are coming to this blog to ‘correct’ me on facts save it. This is how I think about HIM as a person after reading the shit he posted about her and his excuses for doing so. It’s not meant to be HIS story. It’s MY impressions of him after he posted HIS side of things and what I picked up from reading it as to his character.
If you come here to defend him you’ll get schooled. However, I’m really sick of people ‘correcting’ me based on their impressions because most likely, YOU don’t know him either. You make up stories too. The difference between you and I though is that I’m not taking his word for it nor am I interested.
Eron tweeted me again. CLICK TO ENLARGE
I don’t care what she did. She isn’t the problem here. It’s you. You’re the one who posted that crap, not her. This is another attempt to focus this back on her because he doesn’t like his just desserts.
What do you want me to say? That she’s the bad one? Tell me dude, what the hell did she do that in ANY way compares with a public misogynist lynching that will go on for years? Once you can answer that question honestly then there’s no point in talking to you.
I Eron Geek Dude Falls in Love With Zoe
We all know the stereotype of the male gamer. He’s a geek. He has no social graces and he idolizes one woman who he knows won’t marry him or see him exclusively but he keeps at it, persisting at every second, to get her. It’s a game that leaves the computer but unlike a computer game, has real consequences for women who attempt to enter this bastion of masculinity.
Ladies, meet Eron. He’s the dude that comes on way too strong and then expects marriage after a month. He’s insecure and immature. He likes to brag that women come on to him because he thinks that will make women like him more. It’s the biggest male faux pas coming right out of a PUA handbook.
He meets Zoe, a game designer who he falls for immediately. He tells her he loves her right away.He’s socially inept and frustrated. He’s dependent and desperate.
Once Eron has sex with Zoe, he wants to own her so he does all sorts of things to make that happen. He monitors her, follows her around, gets obsessed with her and never stops calling and messaging. He suffocates her. We’ve all experienced the clingy guy we wished like hell we never slept with because, with men, when they sleep with a woman and they’re immature and frustrated, they’ll do ANYTHING to form a relationship. These men don’t have a clear identity and lack boundaries. They lose themselves in women because they’re needy and dependent. They become a nasty second shadow that you can’t shake.
II Zoe: The Independent Woman In the Male Dominated Gaming World
Zoe is an intelligent woman who wants to establish herself in a male dominated subculture. Just being in that subculture does numbers on her psychologically. She’s probably hit on by men everywhere she goes. She gets cut off while she’s trying to talk seriously about her job. She’s probably completely overwhelmed by mansplainers and coerced sexually. Her career, she knows, is always overshadowed by men in power. The only way she can get anything done is by dealing with them, which becomes tiresome. Sometimes she gives in to the sulking dude who she knows won’t quit.
She’s a healthy, sexually active woman. She meets Eron and since he can really hold a conversation and seems grounded, she has intercourse with him and starts to date him.
The dating is casual. She knows there’s a chance Eron will become obsessed but, like many women, give him the benefit of the doubt. He suddenly wants to be with her in every moment and won’t leave her alone. She likes the company but it starts to get too much. He’s extremely judgmental and manipulative. She likes him but not that much.
She continues to have sex with him and taking his calls, albeit sending off hints that she doesn’t want to have a deep relationship with him because she doesn’t trust him. In fact, at one point she flat out tells him. Zoe hopes, like many women, that Eron will take her hints but he doesn’t because this guy doesn’t understand social cues, at all.
Now she has to try to let him down in a way that won’t cost her violence or a dramatic scene or both.
III The Break up and Fallout
Eron, the dependent manipulator, knows somewhere she doesn’t want him but because he is so immature and wants her at all costs he continues to latch onto her ankle like a dead weight. She doesn’t know how to let this guy down for fear of what might happen to her and there is a small part of her that kinda likes him so it’s a bit of a struggle. He gets even more desperate to do anything to keep up the illusion in his mind that they’re a couple. Our culture is full of geeky dudes who construct elaborate fantasies to themselves and male friends that the woman they dated once is head over heels in love with them.
Zoe continues sending hints as best she can while trying to focus on life and work. She has sexual encounters with other men like any normal healthy woman but she still has to deal with clinged peaches who just won’t take the hint. Eron knows she’s with other guys and not committed to him. After a period of time he finally admits to himself she’s been with other men even though they’re not exclusive and he begins the long drawn out game of trying to ‘catch her’ and get her to submit to him. This is what immature men do to save face and to enact a sort of violence against women in their punishing way for not giving him the relationship he thinks he’s entitled to. He wants to corner her, to have her submit and cry to assuage his ego. Then he can judge her.
He approaches her and half assedly confronts her with a barrage of questions. He’s got that look in his eyes that women who mistakenly sleep with dependent men know. She’s worried about him going off the deep end. She tells him, in as best way she can, one by one, the guys she dated while dating him. It’s awkward as he pushes her to explain in detail everything she did when she wasn’t in his presence.
The process takes days. She’s exhausted. He won’t let up.
Finally, he accepts that he’s not the ‘one’ and his self created fantasy is dead. He now thinks of ways to hurt her because he’s hurt. He doesn’t take responsibility for any of it and is ready to do what he does best: judge and claim victimhood. She must pay.
He takes to a blog to publicly shame her to the world.
IV The Blog Post
Eron, the jilted ex is so angry now that he decides to publicly shame her sexually by writing a large blog post where he whines as he explains every intimate detail. I felt strange reading it because it was so socially inept, so whiny, so manipulative and desperate all rolled into one. He knows this blog post will work to bring her harm because the gaming world is a male dominated and stringently patriarchal. It doesn’t cross his mind that he’s the one at fault here. HE must be the victim.
He even goes the lengths of protecting SOME of the men he thinks she slept with because of brofeelz. Apparently those few guys didn’t have sex with Zoe while they were ‘together.’ He pours out his immature heart onto a blog that he knows will have longstanding repercussions for her in this industry. What he fails to understand, at the time of writing, is that it also has repercussions for him. The endless post, is full of incredible detail whereby he analyzes and judges each and every move she made, each and every conversation they ever had. It’s frightening to read how wrapped up he was and out of touch with reality.
Not only does he display that he’s a dependent ‘nice guy’ creep but he also shows women who are trying to navigate that male dominated field what they’re in for if they get near him. It displays his ideas about women, as if she was his property and was ‘defiled’ by other men. He reproaches and names a few of the men he thinks she slept with but only because they allegedly were with her when they were a ‘couple’ and because ‘how dare those men sleep with a woman that ‘belonged’ to him!’ Women are seen as property in this subculture to be held up as trophies/objects for a guy desperate to prove his manhood instead of mutual human partners that have independent lives of their own.
I can tell while reading this multiple page blog post by Eron that he’s hurt but dammit dude, YOU have a serious problem. You played right into it and didn’t take the hint. You made a fantasy story in your head and because you lacked boundaries and a life of your own you lost yourself in your own false fantasy, in her.
Even after it was over he was STILL trying to check her every behaviour. It’s abuse. No two ways about it. Not only was he playing victim but he assumed the victimhood of her tens of thousands of online fans. He claimed he was judging her and exposing her for them when it was really about him. He did it that way so people wouldn’t think of him as vindictive. Too late pal. I’ve got your number.
You’re the stereotypical judgmental fixer who pours endless edicts at women that you think ‘helps’ them. This is how you try and control the environment. You’re the kind of guy women should NEVER get near.
It was a GAME to you dude. Instead of dealing with reality you got lost in a world you created, the one that Zoe wasn’t actually in.
V Aftermath: Addressing Eron
Eron, you’re making this worse and if you think she’s the one with the bigger problem you’re wrong. You’re showing other women that you’re not ever to be trusted to have any intimate time with. Coming out public with this highly personal situation was wrong and you know it but because your male ego was shattered, and by your own hand at that, you feel compelled to smear Zoe with everything you’ve got. Worse than that is you’re using ‘the community would care about this’ excuse to do it. I don’t believe for a second she didn’t give you hint after hint that you weren’t the ‘couple’ you imagined. You smothered her and then couldn’t understand why she was luke warm with you.
You kept telling her she was failing you in her dishonesty. Why would a guy who knows he’s being cheated on (assuming that’s true) go back and back and back? You claim you’re being super dude but that’s not why. You wanted to fix and monitor her. You wanted to make her to be the failure that victimized you time and time again so that YOU could play victim. You’re fucking sick dude.
Not only that but coming out with this, whether true or not, shows that women usually have to sleep with men to get somewhere in your industry. It alerts all women in these industries, or are attempting to get in, that they have a solid case for why they need to put their feet down and eliminate the boys club. It’s the classic double bind for women. If a woman is comfortable having sex with men as she sees fit she’s called a whore sleeping up the ladder while at the same time men want and REQUIRE women to do that in this industry. It’s a problem. A big one.
The boys-club is has to go. No amount of kicking and screaming about Anita Sarkeesian or Zoe Quinn is going to change that. This event lends credence to Anita’s ideas about games and how females are treated as ‘property’ to be won through successive attempts. It gives us a deeper understanding of male geek culture and how it works concerning women in the real world. I feel like I have to put in the obligatory ‘not all male gamers are like that’ but many of them are and Eron is the quintessential creepy nice guy every single woman dreads after having sex with them.
The MRA/gamer cross section picked up on this and continued to sexually shame and harass Zoe online where Eron left off. Page after page, endless rants, and videos are dedicated to analyzing her every move (which I won’t link). Her sexuality is being picked at with minute detail. It’s disgusting. They also accuse her of ruining the gaming community. We radfems here at mancheeze know exactly what’s going to happen from here. This woman will be vilified for years to come.
It never occurred to these dimwitted MRA’s that the wider problems are the toxicity of entitled dependent geek culture and masculinity in general. They viewed this as a chance to call her a whore and a cheat, displaying their own inadequacies, immaturity, and need to claim victimhood.
When the media picks up stories of women being targeted by these entitled males many people rally to the woman’s side. The woman gets blamed for that too. She’s called an attention whore and is accused of ‘damseling’ but who are the ones that really want the attention? The healthy woman trying to make a career or the depressed entitled male sitting behind a screen typing out woman hating screeds and masturbating to porn all day?
MRA’s claim they are victims of feminism and unsurprisingly they’re blaming feminism for Eron’s woes. I have no idea how feminism created this but feminism sure will fix it.
Remember what these men did to woman gamer Anita Sarkeesian for analyzing games through a feminist lens? They made a video game where you could batter her and still to this day she’s getting rape and death threats from them. A couple of MRA’s are making a film to put woman gamer Anita ‘in her place’ by asking for donations on Patreon. This is violence, online male violence. Luckily, in Zoe’s case, much of it is being taken offline but the harassment is just beginning.
A common theme in mens lives is how a man can GET sex from women as if it’s something you ‘work’ for or pay money for. Women aren’t seen as active participants and men call them ‘gatekeepers’ in order to claim oppression. Men also talk about sex as if it’s the only thing in the world they want. They define it as the only intimate act you can have with a woman. These men also have a term for their sexual frustration: ‘friendzoning.’ This term means a woman PUTS you in a friend space that you need to try and get out of if you can. It’s like a challenge to get out, a game. No never truly means no if you’re a guy in the friendzone. Men are accusing Zoe of friendzoning Eron as if being a friend is pure hell for males.
In fact, one of the main ideas in MRA circles is that men are oppressed by women’s bodies. This theory clearly shows how men think of women, as parts, as objects that then need to be controlled. It’s not surprising to me that 21 out of 24 objectives of a AVFM involve controlling women in some way, from ending rape shield laws to wanting to control her reproduction.
This aggrieved entitled group of men work to keep women out of these tech jobs through different ways. I had a guy tell me just yesterday to ‘get out’ of what he considers his gaming world. Remember too the professor at San Diego state I wrote about that said ‘math is male’ and who actively discriminated against women in STEM?
This latest behaviour from the MRA gaming culture shows how much men try to control women. The idea that Zoe is a grown woman capable of having intercourse with multiple dating partners is unthinkable to them. She must be blamed, not the patriarchal structures of misogyny. Feminism, and by extension women, must be blamed.
This is why my site is for women talk about all the ways in which patriarchy impacts their lives. We discuss how much men hate us. This is why this site is radical feminist. While I don’t want to alienate liberal/3rd wave feminists I can see why they’re not effective when it comes to this current backlash. Should we rally around Zoe and call her a proud slut or should we analyze and explain the systems of male power in which this event occurred in order to consciousness raise?
The focus of third wave feminists on individual consciousness divides up women. We need to get collective again. We need to take a strong stand and refuse to work within the system, which is what I see many 3rd wave feminists doing. If you want a good lecture on this see this video by Gail Dines. Only after we understand the system can we break it. I
And I want to break it.
NOTE TO MANSPLAINERS: You will be mocked if you post patriarchal bullshit on my site.
Esmay is getting his tooth fixed he announced in a Google+ hangout. This new developement was inspired by his TV appearance where he blamed a feminist professor for his missing front tooth. I think he realized he came off like a raving maniac and decided he might just hit up Paul to be his Tooth Faery. I wonder how much money Paul will leave under the pillow after going MGTOW on Esmay. I don’t even want to know to be sure.
So anyway, I was talking to another MRA about the biological determinist theories they memorize in order to spew at feminists to commit the naturalistic fallacy. Dean was gloating pompously about ‘pair bonding’ on a Youtube comment section. I noticed this and commented to another MRA who seemed open to a conversation. Once I had the MRA on topic and ruined his argument he did the skipping needle routine and started screeching that ‘women are evil!’ Dean saw this conversation, feeling he had to step in and save face, having a total meltdown.
Yesterday 6:05 PM
‘A word of advice: “Mancheez” is a horrendously hateful, abusive, sociopathic, sexist bigot who lies constantly, and whenever she’s caught in a lie she changes the subject to something else. She will constantly misrepresent what others say, and you’re well off to ignore her completely; you aren’t engaging with anything but a manipulative sociopath when you deal with her bullshit. Even when she says something factually accurate, she puts the most hateful and bigoted and abusive spin possible on it (like her comments on “deadbeat dads” above, and her obviously intentional lack of understanding both of fatherhood and what “child support” actually means.You’re dealing with someone no better than a White Supremacist or a Klansman when you deal with Mancheeze, aka Diana Boston, aka about 5 other monikers. YOu’re better off blocking her, she’s truly a dishonest hatemonger of the worst sort.’
Paul Elam’s intent to go softer on his woman hating is failing miserably today. In response to an angry letter from a man regarding AVFM’s new mission statement, he wrote ‘There Is No Such Thing as a Sperm Donor. They Take It All.’ In it he rails at the guy who wrote him telling him he was done with the Men’s Human Rights Movement because of AVFM’s hatred. Specifically, Elam and friends have decided that paying child support needs to go and men need to have control over women’s reproductive rights. The ‘former’ MRA wrote him:
‘I am writing to let you know that you just lost another reader. In fact, I now consider myself DONE with the MRM.
I could not believe my eyes when I saw in your new mission statement that you think a man should be able to walk away from his responsibilities as a father when he gets a woman pregnant.
Is this what your new world looks like, men having all the sex they want and then turning their backs on the women who are carrying their children?
This casts a shadow of shame on every man who supports your movement. I refuse to be one of them.’
Paul Elam, being the aggressive misogynist that he is and who hates it when men question him, doubled down on his stance and proclaimed that yes, men should be able to fuck and dump women and walk away from any babies that result from it. He also gives us a clue into his stance on abortion.
‘Men (at least those they bother to inform) wait to be told if their child will be surgically terminated. If the child is allowed to live, the man will wait to be told how often he will have access to it, and how much it will cost him. He will also be pointedly informed of the price for not paying up.’
Paul Elam needs a class in reproduction. It’s not a child before birth Paul. It’s a foetus.
His reasoning for why men should be allowed to run off and leave their children without a dime?
‘Women have almost limitless options where it concerns reproduction. There are multiple, inexpensive forms of birth control. They can keep their legs closed. That option is very affordable, even if telling women life as a cum dumpster is risky, both for women and for the people who point out that the statement is true. There is abortion as a unilateral decision. There is even a post-conception abortion pill.’
Children are not only are stuck with a deadbeat dad who doesn’t give a fig about them but women who have sex are cum dumpsters who deserve to live in poverty with their kids because it’s more important that men screw women and leave their progeny in the dust. He thinks caring for a child financially is slavery for men.
What’s at issue here is deadbeats. AVFM is full of them. These are men who are older and have kids and either don’t pay child support or pay portions of it. Basically, they’re just men who hate their ex wives and take it out on the child.
‘Consent to sex does not mean consent to parent. Ask any woman. She will tell you.’
What Elam and friends don’t understand, what they get wrong every time, is that consenting to sex is NEVER consenting to parenthood for either men or women. Consenting to sex means you consent to the possibility that a pregnancy may come of it and that if a child is born you financially must support that child. Giving money to support the child isn’t parenting. Mothers who raise children that come from deadbeats are the parents who are parenting the child. Anyone can give money but not everyone parents.
‘I am just saying that unless you are willing to tell women to quit expecting handouts and a cup of sympathy every time they get themselves knocked up by the nearest thug, you may just be proving your hypocrisy and your intellectual weakness.’~Paul Elam
Women aren’t expecting sympathy. The child has needs which Elam calls ‘chivalry.’ You can see a bit of Elliot Rodger in his writing too. Elam, like Rodger, thinks women just go for Alpha males who treat them badly while ignoring the lower status males, like Elam himself, who are the real men, the men that really care.
‘Your body. Your choice, and your fucking baby. Now let’s hear some shit about how you don’t need a man. But you might want to consider the fact that a growing number of us have heard that one enough to start honoring it whenever possible.’
The anger Elam has towards women is so palpable, so intense and now we know he hates children just as much. I’m going to start calling him ‘Big Red Neckbeard.’ CLICK ON IMAGE FOR FULL SIZE
AVFM’s come out with their new mission statement. If you just read the first two paragraphs, it’s well written, but it devolves very quickly into taking women’s rights away and calling women ‘gynocentric parasites.’ I had thought that a men’s movement would focus on men but we know this isn’t about men ending traditional gender roles. It’s about eliminating women’s hard won rights. Here’s the first few paragraphs, which you would agree with until they go full tilt woman hating:
‘The past 50 years has been a time of remarkable change in the world of western women. With the help of technology and forward thinking our society has thrown off sex based expectations and limitations for women, allowing them important, long-deserved access to the path of self-actualization.
We now live in a world where a woman’s role in life is one of choice, not a destiny shaped by tradition, determined by biology or forged in law. This, we think, is as it should be.
This revolution in freedom and identity, however, will not be complete until the same standards find their way into the lives of the average man. The absence of that complimentary change in the lives of men has created an imbalance that erodes the autonomy of both sexes. Unless this changes, that Imbalance will worsen.’
Now it turns batshit crazy.
Here are some of the missions of AVFM. Out of 24 new missions, 21 of them involve harming women.
End rape shield laws.
Why would MRA’s want to end protection of a woman’s sexual history when it comes to rape cases? To punish her of course. To add to rape culture. Please see my in-depth post on rape and how MRA’s and men justify its existence.
Rape and other forms of sexual assault shall not be based on “penetration” or any sex-specific characteristic, but based on clearly-stated lack of consent.
Rape is a specific crime. Redefining rape to mean something other than penetration won’t make any difference as all sexual violence is counted as a sexual assault. In order to get accurate stats there is a need to separate rape from envelopment. They are two different things yet both are counted equally under the law.
Dispense with child support except in special circumstances.
They want to be able to be deadbeats. MRA’s don’t care about kids.
Reproductive rights, choice in parenthood for men. Consent to sex is not consent to parenthood. Upholding this idea for women while denying it to men must end. Men must be allowed to unilaterally reject parental rights and obligations during the same period of time in which a woman may legally obtain an abortion. The identified father must be served with legal notification of the intent use his assets for the benefit of a child while an abortion is still legal, or the right to use said assets by the mother are forfeit.
I once read a comment that dealt so eloquently with this issue. Consenting to sex has nothing to do with parenthood. You consent to the possibility that a pregnancy will occur. It’s still a choice equally whether to be a parent for both a man and a woman. Many MRA’s want to leave women in the lurch and not financially care for kids aka promoting dead beats instead of promoting contraception and responsible behaviour.
Ratify the Equal Rights Amendment (ERA) precisely as it was originally written, and sign it into law. Or the equivalent in other countries if they do not yet have equal rights as a matter of law.
Their plan in doing this is to put this in so they can then claim men deserve jobs that they think women are ‘stealing’ from them.
Selective Service must either be abolished or include women.
It’s interesting that their focus isn’t just on ending it, which feminists support anyway. MRA’s want an equal number of deaths in manual labour jobs and in the military yet don’t support women getting into those jobs to get the higher pay or in the military. This isn’t about lifting up men. It’s about focusing on women and how best to harm us if they don’t get what they want.
Affirmative Action programs based on sex must be abolished
Racist, sexist assholes. What more do you want?
Abandon Duluth Model and all patriarchy theory-based models of domestic violence in favor of non-ideological evidence-based solutions and programs.
The Duluth Model doesn’t preclude men being victims. The problem is that women are the majority of victims in frequency and severity of battering. The only way MRA’s claim this outrageous stat is by using a flawed method that isn’t accepted by govt. research projects on DV because it doesn’t measure violence accurately. Plus, there is an ideology behind battering women: patriarchal control and dominion over women’s lives.
Require all state and federally funded DV programs to extend full and equal services, including shelter, without regard to sex.
They already have services based on demand. Men who call DV lines can go to hotels and other accommodations set up with the service they call. The issue here is men don’t need the same amount of services women do. Men are never going to be allowed into women’s shelters. I wonder if this means Paul Elam is going to take that 100K and the extra 33K he got a couple months ago and start a battered men’s shelter in Texas? Prolly not, which is why they wrote this:
‘It is time for feminism to fulfill its promise, and to quit making a mockery of it.’
Does anyone find this absurd? They expect feminism to start taking those hard won rights AWAY from women? Isn’t this where Paulie steps in and does something with all that money except make stupid mission statements on his website that promote hatred of women and children? What promise did feminism make? It’s a movement for equality. It never promised to allow dead beat dads not support their own kids. Wow. These guys are so entitled and so dense.
Implement the assumption of equal physical parenting during divorce.
This is not what MRA’s are for. This is their tricky language. What they really want is what’s called FORCED shared parenting. This is what father’s rights groups have been trying to do for over 2 decades. Forced shared parenting allows the abusive parent who doesn’t really want the kids (usually the father and as we can see MRA’s don’t want to support their kids either) to get equal custody to harm the ex Recently in Canada there was an MRA styled bill that got decimated in the senate due to its harmful proposal that abusers should have forced shared custody and that after divorce the financially weaker partner, (usually the mother) can’t move unless the father says so. It’s also a strategy to get out of paying child support. You can see by the above mission statement that MRA’s don’t want to care for their kids unless it’s to harass their ex.
End alimony except by pre-nuptial agreement.
Another thing to hurt mainly women and kids after divorce.
Marriage should be based solely on contract law.
I have never heard of this before but I’m guessing this is where people get married always with a prenup.
End federal funding and provide penalties for universities that interfere with the rights of men to form campus groups.
Wow! One that actually deals with men, one of only two that deal exclusively with men. You can’t end federal funding because a student body won’t vote you in and dedicate money to you. It’s called democracy. The Canadian Federation of Students VOTES on these things. You’re not entitled to that money. You must serve a purpose. Five dudes don’t warrant a TV and video game room on campus if it doesn’t pass muster. If you actually came up with a purpose for these groups instead of ‘DOWN WITH THE WIMMINZ!’ maybe someone would take you seriously.
Prohibit state interference in any sexual relationship between consenting adults.
This one is strange to me. Am I reading this right? Are they saying to end laws against sexual assault? The state doesn’t interfere if there’s consent. The problem is Elam and friends don’t like the notion of teaching men and women about consent or what rape is. It’s better left blurry so men have avenues to coerce women with alcohol. My next post is about this very subject.
Those are just some of them. Like I said, 21 out of 24 were about women. The last part says
‘It is time for the interests of humanity to take precedence over the interests of men and women as political factions and social adversaries.’
That’s what feminism is. That’s not what you guys are. You really think people are that stupid and can’t read the 24 item list you’ve made and figure out it’s about taking rights away from women and bawling because you think feminists should do that for you?
I suggest EVERYONE, right NOW, click on the book on the right hand column of this blog. It’s called Backlash by Susan Faludi. Decades ago she wrote a book about these fringe misogynist groups and how they raise their ugly visages at every turn where women gain even the smallest bit of equality. It will explain why MRA’s are infatuated with Warren Farrell and why Farrell is just parroting the same trash peddled in the Victorian era as a backlash against women. It explains why feminism is always the target. It also sheds light on why men do this and what they’re trying to gain by it. It’s an eye opener because once you read this book, the entire MRM becomes more hilarious than it already is and most certainly pathetically predictable.
Rape is a huge topic in the Manosphere, from the insistence that women are always filing false reports due to ‘regret sex’ to the posters AVFM made in response to an effective public postering campaign by SAVE to educate people on consent. The slogan ‘men can stop rape’ is an anathema to MRA’s. Their response to the slogan is curious. They think they’re being called rapists. The question is ‘why?‘
Men Don’t Worry About Rape
Then there are MRA’s like John Hembling aka JohntheOther who make videos saying ‘I DON”T GIVE A FUCK about rape victims!’
Recently he double down on the video in a new one titled ‘I still don’t give a fuck about rape’ after furiously trying to erase his old video by falsely DMCAing anyone who had a copy. In this video he addresses me as a Youtube feminist.
First, women dress up to go out dancing, to be attractive.
Second, women dance in such a way to be sexual and thus attractive. That’s rather the fun of it, eh?
Third, to ‘go out dancing’ means that women intend to dance with a series of men, therefore actively attracting them closer.
And then, she drinks.
Upon consuming alcohol, she is suddenly – ACCORDING TO THE LAW – impaired and incapable of giving considered consent and any man she has attracted and then has sex with her, has – UNDER THE LAW – raped her.
Since women now have these nifty new laws to “protect” them from being taken advantage of, a woman can’t legally say “yes”.
So, I’d pretty much have to agree that – LEGALLY – any woman that goes out drinking and dancing is at least asking to be raped. Remember! All rape is rape!
This is one reason among several that I just don’t care about rape anymore.
He’s saying that women who are dancing and wearing certain clothing are doing it for male attention. Male attention means rape. Alcohol is the secondary component that he thinks should absolve the man of doing what is ‘natural’ and that the dancing and clothing mean she’s asking for it. This seems to be the mindset of MRA’s and plenty of other men too. Are men just too stupid not to rape or are they feigning ignorance hoping the spotlight doesn’t shine on their coercive strategies?
When I asked this MRA what clothing and dancing had to do with anything he claimed that the clothing industry was a ‘multi-billion dollar industry.’ This typical mansplain is what I like to call the MRA ‘skipping needle’ routine where once you corner them logically they skip to a new topic, a new song on the vinyl.
Rape Isn’t That Bad Because It’s Natural
I ran across another MRA blog called Deansdale’s Blog where he questions the severity of rape in a post titled ‘How bad is rape, really?’ He makes a hypothetical list of 12 horrible things that could happen to a person wherein the last 3 are rape scenarios. He tells women that if they didn’t choose the last 3 rape scenarios they’re crazy.
So what’s the purpose of men trying to compare rape to other horrid human tragedies? What I find interesting is that women must choose an option, and therefore must choose rape. What are women complaining about when it’s not as horrible as a drunk driver smashing your hipbone or becoming financially bankrupt?
Men keep rape around because it’s a tool of oppression. If men truly wanted to eradicate rape they’d be postering their locales with ‘Don’t be That Guy’ posters and educating themselves and other men about consent, not posting on their blogs about how insignificant it is compared to other human tragedies. It does suggest, in this case, that Deansdale recognizes the magnitude of suffering a rape victim endures.
I’ve seen many men, and especially MRA’s say rape will never go away and that it’s a natural occurrence that’s been going on since the dawn of time. This is yet another mansplain to let women know men intend to do nothing to stop it and want it around to use to keep women in fear.
False Rape Accusations Are Worse Than ‘Real’ Rape
Recently, Jonathan Taylor of A Voice for Male Students published a piece on false rape accusations on AVFM titled ‘Ten Reasons False Rape Accusations Are Common.’ In it he uses anecdotes from the mass media. The study MRA’s use to declare false accusations are common is Kanin’s study. It’s so methodologically flawed it should be removed from any serious discussion of this issue. MRA’s also like to point to the Innocence Project which uses DNA evidence in old rape cases to exhonerate the accused who’ve been convicted. However, MRA’s never explain that those who are exhonerated are usually black and just a case of mistaken identity, not a false claim.
The Duke Lacrosse scandal is another oft mentioned retort to the argument that false rape accusations are rare. What wasn’t so rare about that case was a bunch of white jocks hiring strippers who weren’t supposed to be black and then yelling racist shit at them while they stripped. That kind of entitlement, the jock who thinks he can do what he wants, is everywhere. This one case doesn’t remove the Daisy Coleman’s and the Oksana Makar’s from the world. The fact is, for every case Jonathan Taylor cites as a false case, I can name 100 that aren’t false, that are happening now.
In his list Taylor claims
‘Female students are systemically taught that sex is rape when it is not, essentially being taught to make false rape accusations.’
This is patently false as Universities are giving freshman students lectures on sexual assault, what it is and how to report it. Taylor scoffs at universities clearly laying out what sexual assault is. He takes issue with things like verbal sexual harassment of women by brushing it off as not important but he’s really angry that colleges are being incredibly specific on how to not sexually assault women. The reason, in my view, is that it becomes harder for men to do what they’ve always done: coerce. Now that it’s more difficult, men are angry. Sexual assault isn’t important to men because they don’t experience it the way women do.
Taylor tries to boost his thesis by listing out-of-context feminist quotes. He quotes Carol Bohmer: ‘In this book we will be using the term victim to refer to people who claim to have been sexually assaulted.’ This is supposed to be Taylor’s gotcha moment. Problem is he didn’t read the book because it was taken randomly from a page on Google Books.
Perpetuating Rape Culture
On the men’s rights subreddit there’s a post called ‘What Feminism Taught Me About Rape.‘ As you can already guess, the post is flooded with sentiments on rape culture and is exactly the opposite of what feminism teaches. One MRA defined ‘acquaintance’ with incredible detail because he didn’t want to accept that a man a woman knows intimately can rape her. He also complains the statistics will be inaccurate if we count intimate partner rape.
Your best friend who you know well and trust intimately is not likely to rape you. Most rape is committed by “acquaintances.” A man you met at a party who rapes you later that evening? That’s an acquaintance. The way statistics are tabulated, a prior relationship of “5 minutes of conversation” counts the same as “being your best friend since grade 2.”
Men love to tell women how to handle rape, not how they, as men, can prevent it. One MRA recommended women fight back to ensure physical evidence and that women who do fight have a good chance of stopping the attack. Once again the onus of stopping rape is on her. He cites a stat but never the source. It was obviously pulled from his ass. Another MRA added
‘As someone else said, encouraging women to not be victims and fight back would actually stop a whole lot of unwanted sex, but feminists would be out on the street screeching “teach men not to rape” within 5 minutes.’
He warns women about drinking as if women are not allowed to drink like men drink, which is exactly what that means. He doesn’t comprehend that making women change the amount of alcohol they drink is a form of victim blaming. What he’s teaching other men is that a drinking woman is partially at fault and asked for it. Notice how he switches the language to ‘sex?’ This word substitution for rape is prevalent in men. To me it signifies that men think rape and sex is a blurry concept. Why else would they switch words? Thunderf00t is notorious for doing this too. This is a perpetuation of rape culture.
How Can We Stop Rape If We’re The Rapists?
In this comment an MRA reinforces the notion that it’s the deranged male psychopathic and not average men who are doing the raping.
‘The typical sexual predator has sociopathic personality traits and low-empathy, which makes education a completely ineffective means of reduction. Men who rape do not rape because they are ignorant of what rape is, men who rape simply don’t care’
First, he’s wrong about men knowing what rape is. Judge Michael Mettyear of the UK recently showed a rapist empathy because he wasn’t a ‘classic rapist.’ Also, a UN survey in Asia asked men about rape, without using the word, just scenarios of forced sex and asked them if they had engaged in it. Many of them did.
The majority of rapists are men. This is undisputed. So why are men so offended and change the subject when we ask them to stop raping? The answer to me is clear. They want to continue this practice and oppression. They want the blurry lines where coercion is an option. I know that when a bunch of MRA’s gather on a reddit thread talking about rape that they’re going to continue to perpetuate rape myths and tell me, as an individual woman, that not only do I have to be afraid of these guys but that I will be victim blamed if a man chooses to rape me. It’s a choice to rape. A choice.
Many men don’t see it as a choice. They see it as inevitable. That’s part of the problem. If you see rape as something that can’t be stopped, which is what men tell us all the damn time, then the oppression and rape of women will continue. The oppression of women by men in this way is something that can never be tolerated.
‘any good cop knows that is a lie. the f.b.i. is getting to where it lies almost as much as its boss. probably replaced good men in power w/ halfwits and weirdo’s like in the rest of government.
with practically no punishment for making false claims, and long before reason returns to honest men, one might reasonably expect the real rate to reach 8%, in the other direction (8% true). false accusations don’t really cost women and girls anything. you can’t even put their names out there to be punished by society as innocent men are from the first false accusation.’
Just call the cops and the FBI a bunch a liars and use the term ‘real’ and you’ve got mansplaining rape down perfectly. The Edmonton police put the rate at less than 1%. I guess those cops are just lying too right?
Rape On Campus
In California, Bill 967 is causing men to quiver and, in my opinion, for no reason at all. This bill forces universities that are getting money from the federal government to step up and adopt a new preponderance of evidence standard along with clear guidelines for students, faculty, local police and local women’s services to handle rape. Men aren’t happy that now the rapist is the one worrying about crossing a lower standard instead of the victim trying to prove an almost impossible one. Some men are suing universities for expelling them after being found guilty of rape. I think that men finally bearing the brunt of responsibility is the right way to go. It will stop being women’s sole problem.
I also think, and have stated in the past, that men do know how to ply women with alcohol and they appreciate the fact that there’s space for them to get away with coercion because the beyond reasonable doubt standard allows them to say ‘she wanted it.’ I expect a lot of lawsuits brought by men at their colleges. It’s all part of male backlash.
Hans Bader from Legal Insurrection disavows the bill because he says most communication is non verbal and ‘haggling’ shouldn’t be a part of sex, especially with couples who know each other. Hans obviously doesn’t know much about rape though because most rape is between people who know each other. His is a legal opinion but also a male one. He argues that sex between long term couples will now be considered rape. I don’t understand how that could be unless ONE teensy tiny thing is given: consent.
It’s also apparent from the comment section on Hans’ article that men are infuriated. One commenter writes, after giving us a lesson on the ‘nature’ of men and women:
‘So, the whole idea here seems to be to give females a chance to get revenge on males if they feel day-after remorse. For the most part, the females voluntarily put themselves in the position they found themselves in, with the full knowledge of what might, or maybe was likely to, happen. They got drunk, hooked up, and regretted it the next day. Maybe the guy didn’t call them back. Something like that. But, before thinking that the females can only win, keep in mind that males are more and more dropping out of the dating/mating game, and are getting harder to nail down into marriage, as the reality that the deck is stacked against them becomes obvious to more and more of them.’
The comment section is full of disgruntled men who now are put on the spot to have consent, enthusiastic consent, and they hate the idea. I can’t help but think that they’re overreacting. Some of them are purposely making this complicated:
‘Just handout sexual consent forms at Freshman Orientation. And, remind the male students that whenever they receive one from a female student to make sure that it is notarized.’
I see no women in the comment section, just men. They know they can’t coerce anymore. One of them even flat out admitted that this kind of male pushing and female resisting was just part of normal relationships. I suppose that’s why education about rape and consent it so important.
Men can stop rape but they don’t want to.
Do you think that Elam and Esmay could talk about the death of Michael Brown without bringing up women or blaming women for something? Course not. In their weekly Intelligence Report (ugh) Elam and Esmay went belly up. They started talking about the shooting of Michael Brown, an unarmed (as far as we know) African American man from Ferguson shot 6 times by police. Instead of talking about the ways in which white male domination, privilege, and systematic racism keep minorities out of good paying jobs or even having an African American on their program to talk about it, Esmay and Elam told us that VAWA (Violence Against Women Act) and the war on drugs is related to the unrest in Ferguson. In other words, let’s bring this back to blaming women.
‘You can see the same artifacts, with the Violence Against Women Act when you see the primary aggressor laws, when you see mandatory arrest laws come into play in domestic disputes and the cops show up and answer the door, just arresting the guy is as easy as it can possibly be in a minority community. And then, this is another reason that there is no trust. I mean don’t even address all the poverty, the joblessness, the lack of prospects for the future, the feeling of disenfranchisement. The fact is our laws with the war on drugs and the Violence Against Women Act are geared to go in and create chaos and imprison people in black and other minority communities.’~ Paul Elam
Wow. What projection. If someone can seriously tell me what VAWA has to do with Michael Brown’s death I’d love to know because for a group that continually goes around saying they’re diverse and sensitive to African Americans it seems to me they’d ask an African American to talk about this? In fact, AVFMers are all over an African American right now in the comment section of Alternet’s piece on the MRM. White MRA’s are telling a black guy to shut up about racism he faces and white mansplaining to him.
Oh and it’s misandry that’s responsible according to Esmay and Elam even though it’s obviously racism. I shouldn’t listen to them when I’m eating soup. It nearly flew out of my mouth.
Also, my post on rape is coming up on Thursday or Friday.
Here’s a place to talk about anything you want without MRA trolls. They’ll be ixnayed from the eadthray! I’ll tell you what I’ve been doing. I’ve been reading Backlash again. It’s the book on the right sidebar that you can click and download. One of the main phrases in there that sums up what we’re dealing with when we talk about Warren Farrell and the rest of the dodo’s is this:
‘Women are better off protected than equal.’
This is what Farrell and the MRA’s endlessly moan about. Farrell assumes that women’s place as subjugated house wife is her natural place and uses backward evo psych theories to support it. His entire thesis is built on a house of cards because the research shows that the more women are liberated and have choice, the more healthy we are. It also turns out that husbands who have wives that work aren’t happy. Men have to rearrange themselves accordingly because women aren’t going back any time soon.
Hence we see MRA’s banging the backlash drum and indulging in pseudo science to do it. Nothing they say is even true and yet they get reported on in the mass media. The reason for this is that they’re loud and pull stunts like flooding Occidental college with false rape reports but an even bigger problem is the right wing think tanks. They give MRA’s a new lease on patriarchal oppression. It turns out that one ‘feminist’ they adore, Christina Hoff Sommers, belongs to a right wing think tank.
The entire charade is to get women to question their liberation, step by step, to try and make us neurotic about our choices, especially if those choices aren’t staying home barefoot and pregnant. Knowing this, I have a ton more power to understand the game. MRA’s object to women’s liberation and choice for women.
I did start a new blog called Mancheeze Book Club. It’s just meant as a compliment to this blog. I haven’t officially opened it yet but you can check it out if you like. I want to read even the most obscure feminist writings. Hopefully with a group of people.
This is just an off the cuff segue into the post I’ve written about rape and the obsession MRA’s have with it. They also have an obsession with what jobs women do and have assumptions about what jobs women should do. They imagine equality as forcing women to work manual labour jobs. Let’s put aside that dumbfuckery and talk about their recent idiocy.
It’s well known that MRA’s whine about women not being in the military or in high risk/high labour jobs. However, when women are side by side with them in the military, they complain about that too. They think women can’t do the job due to their patriarchal sexism and then want women forced into those sectors. They also don’t understand how difficult it is for women to get into those jobs due to sexism. I was reading a paper about women in construction and couldn’t believe how gendered the occupation was. Women are treated by men as gophers and not construction workers who can actually DO the job. Women are sexually harassed and generally just kept out of this high wage occupation. The statistics and personal stories of sexism make women think twice about working in such a field.
It’s men keeping women out of those fields, not women. Gender keeps women out.
‘But the modern wimperers and snivelers have something the men want. Upping the price, the women—quite predictably— abandoned what worked best with respective sacrifices and duties indeed, and went full throttle—bathed in utter selfishness and obliviousness— for the throat of men, society, and all that we knew…even the boys. With their unfounded envy of males who they mistakenly and foolishly thought had glamorous lives, they, historically speaking, quickly became hellbent on becoming more like men.’~MGTOWman
Recently, a dude on AVFM posted about the wild fires in Sweden. Here in British Columbia we are also battling wild fires since we’ve had almost NO rain this summer. The dude on AVFM was blaming the Swedish govt. for training its firefighters and other service personnel in gender mainstreaming instead of buying another helicopter. Gender mainstreaming is crucial new subject when it comes to global disaster planning and reconstruction. It involves training all levels of govt. including NGO’s on the ground, how gender affects the planning and response to disasters and how to tailor them to save lives and minimize suffering.
‘But when we men give them the room to actually BE more like men, do they actually accomplish it? Can they? …Without revamping every single thing…which undermines the concept of being more like men? I mean, if we have to change everything to suit them, how is THAT them being more like men?’~MGTOWman
Just this week, prior to reading the AVFM post, I watched a 4 hour documentary on Hurricane Katrina, how the local up and through the federal govt. handled the disaster. It really illuminated to me why GM is vitally important in saving lives. While focusing on gender it also focuses on class and race. All these variables are critical to understanding how people plan and deal with disasters.
‘We perhaps, with this caving in, with this foolish pandering to misfit women, are possibly making the most serious and consequential mistake our species has ever made.’~MGTOWman
One of the scenes stuck out for me. The Superdome, which is a self contained indoor structure, housed thousands of people during hurricane Katrina. Soon, services within the Superdome broke down. No electricity, no fresh running water, no plumbing and on top of all that the entire city of New Orleans was under several feet of water, for days on end. People had no home to return to so tens of thousands were stuck there while waste piled up and disease spread.
Women who either had to stay in their homes in the flood zone or who evacuated to the Superdome had special needs that weren’t taken care of due to the lack of GM. Women were having children without medical care, unable to access sanitary services while menstruating, were without life saving medications. Many women have special factors operating in their lives that didn’t allow them to evacuate and in the end, they lost their lives. Also, women in the service fields who handle disasters are treated as weak and their input on how to solve problems is usually scoffed at by men. If you’re going to save lives you have to develop approaches that take into account the differences of people. A one size fits all male perspective isn’t good enough. It never has been.
The dudes on AVFM are blaming women, like the Islamic nutcakes did after the Pakistan earthquake, for the forest fires in Sweden. They don’t understand why the Swedish govt. spent money on this kind of disaster preparation. The ignoramuses over at AVFM can balk and be stupid all they like but I suggest if any of them want to actually get a clue they should look up the science behind GM. it certainly doesn’t surprise me that their simplistic little minds see GM as a gender studies course that’s ineffective. The patriarchal lens through which they see and process the world means we have to listen to them moaning and crying.
‘I experienced the same effect. My body hurt soooo much, (still does sometimes) from having to pull my own load AND that of several women as well. A support battalion, staying in the not-so-rear rear, with women for the first time deployed in mass numbers to a “war zone”, my unit was about 50-50. What a mistake I made to join a unit like that. I’d have been better off maybe up front with the grunts. At least my dignity wouldn’t have suffered… as I had to, in my unit, swallow without a single complaint, the fact that most all of those women provably WERE NOT pulling their weight.’~MGTOWman
Having this kind of GM approach, to understand that men and women have different needs, some biological and mostly due strictly to socialization, can help manage disasters so that lives aren’t lost and critical services are in place to prevent looting, disease and famine.
The idiots over at AVFM think that female firefighters are holding back the ‘solution’ to the wild fires because money was spent on GM education. They’re bitter because Sweden needed to borrow helicopters from Norway. Thank goodness the idiots over there don’t have power to make these kinds of upper level decisions and there’s plenty of smarter people that can.
If you want to educate yourselves about GM there are some great papers. The one I’m reading comes from the same research hospital I used to work at. The UN has great resources for this as well. Here’s a Word doc from the UN on the subject. Many books have been published on this topic too. I found one online that has information about the Pakistan earthquake where men blamed women’s sexuality (like Warren Farrell does) as the reason for why the quake occurred. It includes hurricane Katrina too. Let the boobs over at AVFM blame women for the wildfires while we women do actual work and gain critical knowledge to save lives.
‘But the female feelings TRUMP EVERYTHING everywhere for everybody…no matter if the things they want actually work, comply with nature, are irrational, will cost a mega-fortune, or have a single shred of commonsense!’~MGTOWman
Maybe this is why Michelle Obama thinks women are smarter?
‘The burning of these forests is unique since it gives a clear story of how the gender bigots have failed the culture and the people.’~Tom Golden
Aaaand the gender bigot is?
‘Time for an all-out men’s strike, country-wide! Take names of those who don’t go on strike. The pussy-whipping must end.’~Steve Brule
MRA’s are already doing that and the world is still turning.
‘Equality my ass! This social engineering catastrophe, feminism, must end before we get burned. Well, I suppose in Sweden they are getting burned, the men that is. While the women collect all the benefits. Ja?’ ~AttillaVinczer aka Napoleon
What a dope he is. Oh and that comment has 32 thumbs up. LOL
‘A total global catastrophe would have loud mouthed feminists realize just how critically important men are, not just women. Men created all the marvels of technology, to make life better for man. Women seem to have exploited men in a despicable underhanded manner. Instead of being thankful and respectful with men.’~Napoleon
Doncha love how ignorant they are? I hope Napoleon sticks one of those horrid looking coins up his ass so he’ll stop speaking.
‘Nobody tells me how I do my business in the bathroom. And I never put the seat down unless I need to. Adjust your own damned seat as you need it and don’t expect me to position it to your liking as if I was your slave.’~Napoleon
Of course it devolved into a man bawl about putting the toilet seat down because spreading germs is EQUALITY! WHAAAAAA! MOAN! CRY! WHINE! Bacterium should listen when a man is speaking!
In Hebrew we say Todah Raba for ‘Thank you very much.’ The ‘r’ in Raba is pronounced like a French one. So it’s like this Toe-DAH Ra-BA.
The donation drive was very successful and I can get a printer soon! Now I will explain why I specifically had a donation drive. Since I have a massive spinal injury it’s hard for me to sit or stand for long periods of time. I am on no pain medication so you can imagine how much it hurts to sit at my desk for long periods.
Having a printer will allow me to print off important articles so I can mark them up in my bed and do preliminary articles. Then I won’t need to hurt myself sitting for so long. I already have a few typists tools that help me sit here, like this wonderful heavy clip to keep papers upright for typists that I got while doing NGO community work about 10 years ago. Now I’ll be able to use that too.
With a printer it will be easier for me to bring content to you.
I promised confidentiality so I won’t name names but you know who you are!