Steven, You Do Realize You’re Posting on a Hate Site Right?

I question the motivations of Steven, a FtM trans person who wrote an article on AVFM. I have a few questions for Steven too.

To make clear, I’m not going to question your personal choices but I sure as hell am going to take you to task for some of the points you made about feminism and women. I’m sure you are well aware of the feminist analysis regarding the social construction of gender so I won’t repeat it but I do wonder whether or not your motivations in this article are informed by your anger towards feminists, your prior status as a gendered woman, and your need to be sexually wanted.

You changed your body. Nothing wrong with that but you said you felt like an extremist feminist. You say:

“Well, I must be an extreme feminist,” I remember thinking. “Because feminists are the only other girls who seem to get as angry at these things as I do.”

That says to me that you understand the feminist philosophy of gender. However, why would you call feminists ‘extreme’? Is it really extreme to understand that the objectification of women’s bodies is wrong? You admit that because you were seen as female you were seen as less competent than men and admit now that because you’ve transitioned you are seen as more competent. You don’t see how that gives you privilege? You said:

‘My distress never had much to do with social roles, and for the most part I did not transition in order to gain any perceived social privilege.’

It had everything to do with social roles and politics. You quite clearly experienced the social problems when you were seen as female. I think you are angry at feminist politics. I think that’s why you’ve decided to write this on a hate site.

‘Any time a man showed “chivalry” towards me, such as offering to help me carry something heavy, I was insulted and angry. I also experienced howls and whistles on a daily basis from men in cars when I went out alone for walks.’

Yes, you were seen as less able. You were objectified with cat calls. Now that you’re male do you get cat called? Do you get seen as less able? Of course not.

What really bothers me, aside from you writing this on a hate site, is the fact that you think somehow being male gave you more problems and that you could easily lash out at your prior feminine role.

‘I wondered if I made an ugly boy since I no longer received daily assurance that I was sexually desirable. It actually took a while to get used to not being seen as the physically attractive sex. My gain became an unexpected loss and I began to realize there are some things on the other side of the fence that you cannot see until you cross over and stand there. ‘

Not being beautiful isn’t a mediating factor of gender. Your loss has nothing to do with male and everything to do with what society considers beautiful. I will argue that being beautiful in women is directly related to being seen and heard, and seen as an object but men aren’t objectified in that way. It sounds to me like you’re more concerned with being sexually attractive and it has nothing to do with being male.

‘I was happy, celebrating the fact that I was no longer seen as just a piece of meat–although later I realized that now society either uses me or ignores me, because I’m not attractive enough to be a piece of meat. I’m instead just an ugly, hairy beast with a wallet and a pair of muscular arms. Or, I might say with some measure of irony, a piece of meat that doesn’t even rate a cat call.’

You enjoy being seen as competent and not a piece of meat but what?  You think women see you as simply strong arms and a wallet? This is the problem with MRA rhetoric. It’s more about getting sex than it is about some massive social problems with being male. MRA’s try to make this case that men as a class are somehow worse off than women when it’s quite clearly not the case. Men are seen as full human beings and women are seen as body parts. You acknowledge that about being female but you seem too concerned with how ‘beautiful’ and ‘sexy’ you are and equivocate that with some massive social oppression that comes with being male.

You say you’re upset about having to make decisions all the time and how you have to approach someone for a date. Don’t you realize that being able to make the decisions is the part where you’re not objectified? Don’t you realize that asking someone for a date isn’t some massive gender oppression? In fact, feminists don’t want you to be the person that asks for a date, doesn’t want you to make decisions for others all the time. Yet, here you are, posting on a misogynist, anti-feminist website!

‘According to feminism male privilege guarantees that he has it so much easier than women. They laugh at the notion that it might be difficult to be a man in this society, because they can’t see the other side.’

If being seen as competent and the decisions you make are seen as competent doesn’t mean you are oppressed. Feminism doesn’t think men don’t have issues. In fact, it’s feminism, and not the misogynist MRM, that actually does things to address these issues. Feminism wants women to be seen as competent, as strong as men. Feminism created the philosophy that explains our gender socialization and the problems that manifest from it, NOT the MRM.

You quite clearly hated your ‘femininity’ but you’re equating it with feminism. It’s odd to me how someone who can write about the objectification of themselves as a female is so quick to take an anti-feminist, nay, in fact, misogynist view.

‘After a year of these experiences, and a year of listening to extreme feminist doctrine at my liberal arts college (which schooled me on the inherent violence of male sexuality, “rape culture,” “trigger warnings,” “safe spaces,” etc.. it seemed to me that many of them wanted to be seen as weak, delicate flowers rather than as strong and capable women), I began to change the way I saw things. I took the red pill, you might say.’

This is inherently misogynist. You just did a complete Orwellian 180 and made up what YOU think feminism is and not what it truly is. Rape culture exists but fortunately for you now, you won’t be the less competent woman being catcalled and sexually objectified. Not one feminist thinks male violence is inherent. Are you swallowing the MRA rhetoric of biological determinism? Do you even know enough about MRA rhetoric to understand that that’s how they see maleness? Feminism doesn’t see the violence as inherent. It’s learned. This Orwellian nonsense you’ve got going on is ridiculous. You’ve swallowed the red pill alright.

I think the most astounding thing is that now that you’re male you insist women should take care of men and submit to a traditional role!

‘Since women now share traditional male “privileges,” they also ought to share traditional male responsibilities; that is, to carry their own weight and acknowledge guilt when they are guilty, and to respect and care for the men in their lives like men respect and care for them.’

Do women not work for a living? Do women not want to have their own property, their own bank accounts? How are women not carrying their own weight? If a woman needs help moving something she suddenly becomes a weak little flower? Now it’s YOU enforcing the gender standards! You say we women have to care for you and respect you because we have male privilege. No. That’s you asserting your own male privilege of automatic respect because of what’s between your legs. I don’t have to respect you simply because you’re male. I should respect you for being human. It’s just too bad that this isn’t how our gendered world works, which you seem to have quickly forgotten about. I mean, you somehow think that opening a door for a woman is some kind of admittance that she’s weak? Whatever happened to being just a decent person? Besides, feminists don’t want chivalry because it’s often tied to what a male thinks a female OWES him (sex)if he pays for a meal, opens a door, or moves a box and you seem more upset about not having access to sex. Are you going to now parrot the MRA line that women are all gold digging, friendzoning, family-ruining cunts?

You’re quite comfortable in telling women to take responsibility because we’re so incompetent which you wrongly blame on feminism and yet you then have the nerve to end your piece about how we should care for you and respect you when you obviously don’t give a flying shit about us. You think, like MRA’s do, that any gain in women’s standing in society is a loss for you. It’s amazing how rape culture instantly disappeared now that you’ve taken the red pill. It went away for YOU.

I can’t respect anyone who writes this kind of uninformed anti-feminist rhetoric on a misogynist hate site. I think that red pill was all too easy for you to swallow.

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12 thoughts on “Steven, You Do Realize You’re Posting on a Hate Site Right?

    • You do realize that both presently and historically it is men who have been the “gold diggers” – no, of course you don’t because you live in a fantasy world.

      The whole purpose of marriage was for the man to get stuff – the woman’s dowry, money, property, her body, the fruits of her body – all as HIS property. Men owned women and all they own (and still do with the marriage laws in the U.S.).

      And, presently there are women who have been severely taken advantage of by lazy men who like to sit around on the computer all day, looking at porn and playing video games while they use her every way they can to make money, take her income, destroy her credit, live off the charity of her family and sometimes even sue her for child support of her own children – children to which he contributed 20 seconds and a single cell.

      This is why women – especially women who have something going for them (good credit, family money, an education, a career, talent, a promising future, etc.) don’t want anything to do with men – especially massive losers like you.

      Men are worse than useless gold diggers, they are extremely violent – that’s how they get what you want. They terrorize you with physical violence until you’re afraid to even touch your own money, that you, yourself, earned. So, do me and the rest of humanity a favor and go back to Hell where you belong and take your misogynistic mob of slimy masturbators with you.

  1. The gold diggery idiocy is typical trolling behavior wherein they troll and then yank on their pee pees while reading some lengthy rebuttal. Please spare yourself the frustration and fatigue in favor of expending your energies on exposing their nonsensical movement. And I apologize id that is advice you didn’t ask for, but I sincerely don’t like decent people with so much to offer, getting waysided by these fundamentalist idiots.

    • You’re right, Tyme. I shouldn’t feed trolls.

      I guess that was just me laying out some thoughts as I was having them.

      Accusations of women’s gold diggery considering what men have done to women for centuries upon centuries is completely ridiculous.

      Furthermore, it reminds of me of when men in the U.S. complain about affirmative action hurting them. What have we had for centuries, if not affirmative action for men that has been extremely harmful to women and other minorities?

      I say turnabout is fair play.

  2. Women have evolved to be gold diggers, its not their fault, but they should try and consciously curb it a little. The real reason why (some) feminists hate prostitution is because prostitutes compete with them for resources.

    • If women are gold diggers, men are the same and worse because they not only steal from women and try to sabotage their careers, they lie, psychologically abuse, beat and rape you and if you’ve got children, they usually do the same to them.

      The reason many feminists and women hate prostitution is because it is a human rights abuse.

      I say the same thing about legal marriage – it’s a form of legalized slavery and it should be put to an end for the same of human rights.

  3. lol anyone with a contrary opinion is a “troll” and therefore can be disregarded lol

    No, I am a genuine Man Going His Own Way, hence my name

    I have watched almost every one of Diana’s videos (apart from the ones about make up or that paper hobby thing) and I disagree with almost everything she says because its all based on faulty logic, but I watch them anyway because I find her cute.

    Now, feminists who REALLY care about “human rights abuse” regarding prostitution campaign to have it legalized and regulated so that women’s health and safety is protected.

    If you are against prostitution ON PRINCIPLE, that’s fine, but first legalize it to remove the worst aspects of it and THEN campaign against people participating in it if that is what you wish.

    Personally I am not against prostitution in principle and want to see it legalized and ultimately transformed into more of a sexual therapy industry.

    I should also say that I am a progressive/liberal/socialist and always vote democratic NOT a conservative at all (unfortunately most MRA’s/MGTOW’s tend to be conservative but I will work to try and change this).

    So being a progressive, I believe in JUSTICE and can see that men’s suffering is being ignored. Ultimately it will be progressives who address these injustices not conservatives who simply believe in “traditional values” which actually are oppressive to BOTH men and women.

    I would like to see a society in which at least half of the positions of power are occupied by women because I think this would feminize/humanize the direction of society away from the egocentric dominator hierarchy system we have now into a more cooperative,inclusive, partnership model. This is why conservatives don’t want to advance women to positions of power, they want to preserve the cut throat/social darwinist ego-driven capitalism we have now.

    After many conversations with MRA’s/MGTOW’s what comes across is that these men (including myself) would like to be loved and valued by women for WHO WE ARE and not simply for what we can do for women. Society simply sees us as utilities that are just there to provide for women as though we have no intrinsic value of our own. As Stardusk said, “women are human beings, men are human DOINGS”. This really is the CRUX of the whole matter.

    Men are tired of having so much expected of them, whereas women almost nothing is expected. Men resent being asked “what do you do for a living” as the first question asked by every woman they date. A better question would be “what do you like to do”. Women really ARE “gold diggers”, its really not a joke, and the situation has become worse than ever because it is reinforced by the way capitalism advertises consumer products to both men and women.

    Women must try and override their biological programming and start to try and see the INTRINSIC value of men. Valuing the nice guy and not the bad boy, the poor guy and not just the rich guy. Men on the other hand should start to recognise that it is in THEIR OWN INTEREST for women to assume more positions of power and responsibility for the direction of society.

    • What you and your fellows apparently fail to understand is that women are not obligated to do anything for you, feel anything for you, acknowledge you, respect you, love you, fuck you, etc.

      A lot of women have really had enough of the constant harassment, marginalization, perversion, rape and other violence – often from random men and even more often from men we thought we could trust (friends, colleagues, family members, etc.)

      Lots of women want nothing to do with men, at all – and that is our right. We do not feel that you have any value – that you are, in fact, a real drag in just about every way imaginable.

      You don’t get to tell women what to do or how to feel.

      But, I know I’m exerting my fingers on the keyboard for nothing here….

      It’s bizarre to me that men claiming to go their own way mostly do nothing but alternately whine that women won’t give them what they want, behave they way they want, etc. – and call us all kinds of dirty names.

      I really wish MGTOWs and their ilk would keep their word and “go their own way.” But, they’re really just a bunch of whining cry babies.

  4. Pingback: Happy New Year Little Mouselings | Mancheeze

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