AVFM Men’s Rights Con 2014: Second Day With Ongoing Updates


To get the basics of how to follow the conference on twitter and such see yesterday’s post. It also includes the first day highlights including a Detroit Metro reporter who was approached by an MRA and touched inappropriately.

Warren Farrell: Date Fraud/Incest Expert

Warren Farrell is speaking today. He’s the MRA guru who wrote ‘The Myth of Male Power.’ The book is poorly written propaganda that blames all the worlds problems on women’s sexuality. He’s a soft spoken person so you’d never really expect him to be so crude and disgusting. He also thinks there’s such a thing as women exercising ‘date fraud’ where they don’t give sex to the man who takes them out to dinner or pays for something. Women owe men sex. This is no different than Elliot Rodger’s outlook on women. Farrell is an opportunist, like Elam, who’s latched onto the Manosphere to make money as a full time misogynist.

He was never the big dude in Feminist circles like he claims to have been. NOW kicked his ass to the curb with good reason. We Hunted the Mammoth has the best articles exposing Farrell. Also, take a look at the video below to hear the main conference speakers in their own words and the misogynist filth that flows from them.

Karen Straughn: The Hypersexualized, Libertarian Queen Bee of the FeMRA’s ‘You Know?’

Well, in a hour the next day of the MRA conference will continue. Karen Straughn is speaking today and I’m sure lots of neckbeards will be frothing in the audience as well listen to her say ‘You know’ a million times while citing completely irrelevant studies with tons of methodological problems, such as when she said that infant boys like ‘male toys’ more than girls and thought that was clever.

Articles on Karen:

VIDEO: MRA Leaders and Con Speakers In Their Own Words

I will do a separate post on the AVFM press conference later. Let’s just say, it highlighted what the conference was really about.

Updates (beginning appx 9am EST)

Warren Farrell ‘Adult Women and Date Rape’

Right out the gate Farrell insists that we live in a biological determinist world where women want alpha men.

He also went into date rape and how you can’t talk about it with adult women because they don’t think about the poor men buying them drinks.

He went on about the paygap, saying it doesn’t exist when we know it does because the workplace is male structured. How can women be equal in a male environment?

Karen Straughn: I’m an anti-feminist and I don’t give a shit’

Karen spent her talk on denigrating first wave feminists and suffrage. She uses anecdotes and extrapolates this outside the context of the culture in the late 18th and early 19th centuries. People need to do serious fact checking on her ‘work’ because it’s usually devoid of context and historical facts.

Carnell Smith on Paternity Fraud

Get a pat test. Simple. There’s nothing to see here except to bash women who he calls ‘cupcake.’ The Youtube livestream comments are paranoia about spermjacking and men blaming women for not wearing a condom saying ‘it’s the woman’s decision!’ Really? It’s women who make you not wear a condom with spermicide? Put a cover on it dudes. Problem solved.

One last thing. MRA’s are against women getting free birth control from their company healthcare  insurance or any other means of healthcare so why should we pay for their paternity tests? Equitable?

Stefan Molyneux: ‘Women Will End This Fucking Human Race’

He actually said that. Listen.

He was supposed to talk about Circumcision and yet spent a couple sentences on it and went right into a tirade.

He is right up there as the scariest, creepiest MRA I’ve listened to and I’ve listened to a lot. His hatred for women runs deep. I can’t imagine what he’s going to say. He’s up next.

I fell asleep during Molyneux but am watching him now. To blame women is so ridiculous b/c he admits he’s a strict social constructivist and that if children are completely molded by society then what about fathers, media, and playmates? Plus, I know not one feminist who think women can’t be violent but when women say men can stop DV it means that men should get involved in the solution of male violence against women.

His assertion that we could have a great world in 5 years if ONLY women were nice mothers is total nonsense. What is a ‘nice mother?’ Since he’s so intent on definitions he should take some time defining the ‘nice mother.’ His images of women is something out of the Stepford Wives.

Simplistic and foolish are the only two words I can muster for him.

Closing Panel

This included naming James Huff as the MRA infiltrator of feminist forums. He’s notably called ‘Agent Orange’ and he infiltrated radfem hub and took a bunch of screencaps back to AVFM so that the MRA’s could find and publish the personal information of these women. Judgybitch said there will be more doxxing and has no problem with the practice. Applause ensued.

Judgybitch put her rather large foot in her even larger mouth when she told Canadians that Americans pay for them to have socialized health systems through the massive funding of the US military (so Canada doesn’t have to fight wars). That went over like a lead ball. In a fucking VFW hall of all places!

The rest was Elam berating the media for finding his woman hatred and some dudes recommending to sue feminist bastions at Universities and get this: Take down the Violence Against Women Act.

No mention of how to solve a single problem facing men and boys, unless you count Warren Farrell saying they need a White House Council on men and boys but some nasty feminazi won’t let him.


82 thoughts on “AVFM Men’s Rights Con 2014: Second Day With Ongoing Updates

  1. Will Feral has just got started and he’s already doing the Red Pill talk and sounding a LOT like Elliot Rodger. “Alpha males” and the type men “women are attracted to.”

    He’s going on about children’s need for both parents – this is disgusting when viewed through the lens of what is happening to women and children at the hands of the courts and abusive men.

    I am disgusted by this speech and by disgusted, I mean grossed out – the way you feel when some nasty dude is hitting on you while you’re trying to pick out fruit at the grocery store.

    They just cannot fathom the idea of men doing whatever it is men supposedly do and simply leaving women alone… it’s just completely outside the grasp, apparently.

    • Now, he’s telling lies about the pay gap! How does he explain women who do not have children being paid significantly less, not being hired and being fired for being women? (My life!)

      And this. Men have to save up “to be able to afford a woman…” Yes, he actually said that! This is very, very sick.

    • He, Feral, just goes back again and again to men not earning as much as women, not doing as well as women in education, not earning as much money and, therefore, not being better able to fuck women!

      • That is hilarious he is deluding himself and others that “men get paid less than women”. What a bunch of bullshit. I don’t understand why they try to blame women for things like men doing poorly in education. It is not women’s job to go to school for men. It’s not women’s fault lmao. Just because women are starting to surpass men in academics, it doesn’t mean women are the reason men are falling behind.

        • Yes, the problem men are having right now is that they never had any competition before – and women are more than equal intellectually – that’s just a fact they have to accept. If they want to do as well as women do in education, they should work harder – instead, they rape, they threaten, they kill us – because that really the only way the can “compete” and they know it. It’s the same strategy they’ve been using against us for centuries, at least!

  2. Feral: “Boys and Men’s Liberation” – from what??? Themselves?!

    And, why should men be the only gender signing up for the draft? Why should anyone be conscripted, least of all women, to fight men’s wars?

    This man is so incredibly sick – he’s on about sex roles now

    Mercifully, the Feral’s filth has come now to an end. “Wow!” Yeah, I can agree with that… Wow, what a load!

  3. This woman is insane… she’s now talking about the Seneca Falls document… Do the men in this audience have not even the most basic education, whatsoever, and no fundamental knowledge of history??? – because you would have to be living on some other planet not to know that women could not support themselves, let alone children because men did not permit it.

    • No. The men in the audience do not. If they did they would know they are being played. The speakers have to play to their base fears. But it is the only time they will get to… There are already some ready to leave. I feel sorry for the men who thought this was a real conference on actual rights. Granted, if they had read Elam’s site and still thought that, they have the IQ of toilet tissue…

      • I’m not hearing anything new here… and certainly nothing worth the trip and $250.

        I’ve been to numerous conferences on a subject of interest to me and they always have researchers there who have dug up some new information or expanding on previous research. They don’t just have people who’ve written books come in and drone on about things everybody has hear 100 times already. There has to be something worth the trip and the fee.

  4. HMQ, I’m so glad you clarified the identity of “cupcake”! I had no idea what he was talking about. Also, he mentioned “the evil empire” twice. I’m assuming this is feminism, which yeti-man and others (I think GWW in her lecture) have called a billion-dollar industry.

    I keep wondering what is the basis for that assertion that feminism is a billion-dollar industry? I can only imagine that they are referring to Federal funding in the U.S. given to deal with the problem of men’s violence against women. I don’t know what else they could be referring to.

    Apart from a bunch of women blogging on the internet, it looks to me like feminism is pretty much dead! So, I don’t see how it could represent a money-making proposition for anyone interested in promoting it.

    • “Apart from a bunch of women blogging on the internet, it looks to me like feminism is pretty much dead!”

      Is the MRM any more alive?

      • Well, they have Fox News (the news network of the white man who feels both self-entitled and slighted by women, immigrants and racial minorities) in their pockets – there has been quote after quote, right out of the AVfM/Elliot Rodger handbook for destroying women’s lives. Most recently, they had George Will disbelieving campus rape stats (which are probably too low and not too high, as Will asserts – just based on my own experiences many years ago) and they’ve had Tucker Carlson taking shot after shot at women. There is a major promotion in the mainstream media of the idea of rape as simply a matter of non-consent, when it is, in fact, a vicious violent crime. But, this reframing of rape as mere non-consent is a cause taken up in great part by the MRM – that is when they’re not denying the existence of men raping women, at all. Then, of course, there is the outpouring of sympathy for Elliot Rodger from all quarters. I could go on… but, we all know that you are a trolling mother fucker and you already know what is happening.

      • Um, yes. The MRM is a movement that wants to reestablish the patriarchy…and last time I checked, the patriarchy runs this world. So, yea, they’re alive and kicking…and screaming….quite loud….everyday.

        But we’ve become accustomed to it, so we just don’t notice it in our movies, TV shows, music, video games, as WotW pointed out, in the news, and in books, etc.

        Oh, and remember kids: misogyny is not a crime.
        Thanks patriarchy! (=

        • I would say they want to maintain the power they already have over women and women’s children and re-establish the very worst aspects of their history – both recent, as in back to the 1950s and before the Civil Rights Act, and much further back, judging by their “women sit at the feet of the devil” rhetoric.

  5. I don’t know who is speaking… some guy who was “called up for military service for his country” and who does not sound like the Canadian misogynist Molly-new… but he is really waxing melodramatic! Apparently, he showed some kind of dramatic video (which I couldn’t see on radio stream!) in which he dramatizes his own suicide, which was really confusing to me since he’s still jabbering on here.

    He just defended that lunatic who hit his little daughter in the mouth and then set himself on fire!

    He’s a warrior! LOL!

    This isn’t a conference, it’s a collection of inmates from an insane asylum!

  6. I finally found the streaming video at YT – I don’t think it was working yesterday. But, now I know why I was confused about whether this was the actual conference or not – there’s hardly anyone there in attendance who isn’t a member of the press!

    • Same today. Their numbers are a bust. The protests at the Hilton got some actually reading their site… The cancels ended up permanent. The VFW will be backpedalling on this one also… The last thing they needed was this group of ‘speakers’ justifying violence to women and children with the incidences of rape in the military right now.

  7. Those tacky Christmas lights hanging down over the screen where Molly-new is standing on the stage certainly adds a touch of class… I mean you’d never find such posh ornamentation at someplace like the Hilton! I can definitely see why they wanted to change locations now! LOL!

    I thought GWW was crass, but Molly-new definitely tops her. I guess in that respect, he sort of goes with the decorations.

  8. Molly-new is blaming mother’s for the fact that men are violent to women.

    He had a chance in the beginning of this speech to address the serious medical issues surrounding male circumcision. But, he just couldn’t stay on topic – he had to insinuate that somehow women are at fault… women’s penises get circumcised far less often, he said. Then, he goes into a crass tirade about women’s breasts. What I want to know is who let this degenerate across our border!

  9. Stefan M says violence begins in childhood – and guess who is in charge of children. He includes promiscuity as one of the evils resulting from abuse of children. He earlier made reference to being a “seed sower” in his youth. Guess he had an abusive mother. – or more likely he only considers it promiscuity if it is women having sex.

  10. Do you believe this Molly-new dude has never hit his children? All he’s done is verbally and psyco-sexually abuse every woman in this audience. I find it hard to believe he isn’t some kind of an abuser behind the closed doors of his home.

  11. It looks like at least one of the reporters got an article out already:

    This just came out on MSNBC a couple of hours ago:


    This is from a few days ago, but has some interesting commentary by the SPLC on the Men’s Hate Movement and how they first got on their radar – namely that dude that one of the speakers defended a couple of hours ago who hit the little girl and set himself on fire – apparently, he advocated fighting “the matriarchy” by bombing police stations. Yes, VFW, I hope you’re proud of yourselves, especially since Elam just thanked you for making their work possible.

    This is the AlJazeera article featuring SPLC:


    • Good article on MSNBC, 100 attendees is a stretch tho. They may have picked up another 20 (including press) Loved the comments. No pity for them there in the few I read. They fooled no one…

      • Yes, on the first day they invited members of the press to come forward and fill the front seats and it looked like about 2/3 of the people there were with the press! More people who appeared to be paying attendees arrived later, but I think maybe 50 might be a better number once you subtract members of the media.

        These people are their leadership and their core supporters and they look like a pretty small group, but they are part of a large network and they have a lot of minions – online harassers. According to the research of SworebythePrecious aka. DarkHorseSwore and her Operation Dark Horse project, it appears that they actually be paying men to harass women like us online by making comments on blogs and in forums. They are small, but well-funded it seems and well-organized. They make a living out of their harassment and we are just here trying to exist…

        • I agree that 40-50 is closer the mark. The reason the press con looked like 30 was because there were MRA’s in there too. Not many press showed up.

          Elam likes to talk big but he’s not that big. He does have a lot of minions that stalk feminists and gather our dox. THat’s true.

          But AVFM, and MRA’s are a relatively small group overall. Many men love the woman hating but won’t go public with their support of AVFM, which tells you something right there.

  12. Elam is talking about the “diversity” of their movement! LOL! He says there’s lots of diversity… He’s going to make a great stand-up comic at the Federal penitentiary!

  13. OMG! What’ this guy from India saying? Women have too many rights over men in marriage in India.

    Has no one from this group been reading the news for the past couple of years? What are they thinking?!

    Something about men protesting women’s rights in India just doesn’t sound quite right… especially in light of recent events in India.

  14. Okay, the ex-con asks why isn’t there a “Men’s Studies” program at some Uni. or other and is talking about filing a lawsuit.

    Yes, why isn’t there a Men’s Studies program at every school? Hmmmm…. Let’s think about that. Let’s think really, really hard…

  15. Right out the gate Farrell insists that we live in a biological determinist world where women want alpha men.

    And men want women who look like porn stars and possess unnaturally large breasts, thanks to artificial implants (which are known to cause all sorts of health problems). He left that part out. Such unbelievable hypocrisy.

  16. Sounds like Angry Harry is advocating for some type of illegal behavior. This loony brit has been running his yap all during the conference.

    • Yes, it does sound like it.

      The conference just ended with a threat of further harassment and doxxing of women online… the thing about the conference is that THIS is their best behavior. The rest of the time, they’re justifying physical violence and the natural result is someone like Angry Harry.

  17. Well, one of the women just advocated doxxing and harassment of women, especially radical feminists. Earlier they applauded the actions of Vliet’s cyberstalker. How can the VFW people go along with this kind of thing? Is it legal to stalk and threaten people in Michigan?

    It is not free speech to threaten people – us and others like us – with doxing and harassment, especially when we have already been driven underground and are someone among us is being threatened by them just about every week.

    Now, Elam is doing the Orwellian, “We are a peaceful movement,” thing!

    • They have been informed and tomorrow is likely going to go somewhat differently I suspect. Some vets are shocked (and embarassed) this could happen in a VFW and plan to contact national.

        • The hall was apparently booked without the main body of the local VFW knowing about the site. It happened so fast that no one checked their site who could pull the plug in time. I know at least one vet called the state VFW and thought there would be a full review. The threats alone are a procecutable crime in MI. I doubt they know it yet, but they picked about the worst state they could have for this… Then they went live, it is all on tape.

          • It is very disturbing to me, personally. Like a lot of women online, I go to (probably absurd) extremes to guard my privacy because of men, in general, and these men, in particular.

            Given the current climate online for women and AVfM’s history of infiltrating private discussions of women in forums (as they bragged about), doxxing, cyberstalking, threatening, and nearly constant harassment, I can’t see how this can be remotely acceptable to anyone!

            Elliot Rodger, also, wanted women to be afraid… this is a running theme with these people… harassment, intimidation and terror.

          • Let me just also say that VFW is an old man’s place (nam and older usually). These men really had no idea this sort of men’s group existed before now. Try not to judge that local VFW too harshly.

  18. That whole vid is up on YT right now. Surely, they didn’t have time to edit it already. I hope someone saves, at least, the threat portion…

    It’s really chilling… I’m sure I’m not the only one who feels that way.

  19. HMQ, I suspect some were warned, though may not have understood the extent of the behavior. They certainly got emails… But unless they watched all the YT and read all the comments and blogs they probably didn’t understand… (I didn’t until we discussed it on mLive on the article about their first venue. I had time to research it, many don’t.)

  20. She says, “Yes, we dox people and radical feminist should be afraid.”

    We should NOT have to live in fear of these people and they should not be violating the law and getting away with it over and over, again!

    • Them holding it in MI means you don’t have to. Keep track of any harrassment and send it to the State of Michigan (state police addy online) I wasn’t joking when I said they picked the wrong state to do this in… It’s almost like someone intended them to be caught doing this.

        • MI state police will field all reports of violence (or threats of) in the state. While they are in MI doing their conference, they are subject to state laws. VFW may, though I think they will be more concerned about damage control of their own in this case… Just be sure to pass on anything to the MSP if it comes up.

          • Well, that’s sort of what I was thinking. If I were in charge of the VFW, I would probably try to keep this under wraps.

            But, I just remembered – there are some nice Michiganites who are definitely keeping an eye on the proceedings there. I’m sure they’ve heard of it already. I’ll bet that professor they harassed after she appeared on the local tv network with Yeti-man will get wind of it, too.

    • I’ve NEVER been afraid of any of these Hatemongering Bigots™ (LOL For real!). In fact, they should be afraid of me because I possess excellent research & social engineering skills, and I have absolutely nothing to lose.

  21. Soooo… these are the types of clients that “father’s rights” lawyers serve? Lulz.

  22. Whenever the Michigan State Police investigate tonight’s threats, they should also look into this alleged letter from the HIlton, which they used to raise funds for security for this event, to see if it’s authentic. No one has ever said anything except that there were no verifiable threats.

    She says people are calling her a terrorist – I wonder what other threats she might have made:

    • Oops! That’s not the link to the woman saying people are calling her a terrorist and talking about the alleged hotel threats while holding up the questionable letter.

      This is it:

          • The bad news: she’s not acting, she really is that crazy. 😀

            I didn’t watch past the first few awkward seconds. I tend to ignore anything being said by somebody who has obviously been sippin’ the sauce (or huffing on a crackpipe) before they decided to record a YouTube video.

          • I almost fell out of my chair when she announced that she’s a “mother”. With a potty-mouth like that, I’m sure her kids are no stranger to verbal abuse.

            Further thoughts: It doesn’t take a great stretch of the imagination to visualize what, say, holiday dinners are like in that household. I can easily picture her getting sloshed on spiked eggnog, and attempting to pole-dance on the xmas tree. She probably accidentally-on-purpose spills turkey gravy on her mother-in-law’s lap, too.

            Bonus observation: Pill-popper.

        • Remember when I said being a nut enables me to spot other nuts (in regard to Barnard Chapin)? Yeah…. this is another one. LMAO!

          I also suspect some sort of substance abuse problem.

          • That whole video is one massive reversal, “…feminists are trying to silence me…” especially with the trail of evidence that exists of their harassment and silencing of feminist bloggers – and, of course, tonight’s proud admission of doxing combined with the terroristic threat.

            I think she’s a pretty bad actress.

      • Yes, and if that is the case, then they raised money under false pretenses and falsified the correspondence from the hotel, which is shown in the video. Of course, maybe that isn’t a crime, either – or, at least, not a crime in Michigan. But, it certainly seems like it ought to be a crime in some jurisdiction or other.

        • I’m sure it is, though proving that kind of cyberscam would be tricky. From what i remember, the hotel said there were no ‘verifiable threats’. (Meaning they thought the group sent them to themselves but couldn’t prove it- By then they were just hoping to get rid of them I would guess 😉 )

        • This was one of the places I heard it. I must say, this has been quite enlightening…. Until a few weeks ago i didn’t know these groups existed. I have been lucky to know only mentally stable men in my family (for the most part). Everyone (male or female) I’ve had look at their site considered them bonkers… The men who share custody of their children were especially unkind. They are afraid it will set back equality in family court if it becomes asssociated with this sort of rhetoric.

  23. On the cyberstalking of women (might as well use the legal word)

    OK, who was the woman MRA who made that comment? Would be good to know.

    Elam came right after her and since he didn’t disagree, he condoned it. Very good. Just right.

    AVFM’s cyberstalking will spell the end of the whole shebang. It’s the seed of their destruction. They just can’t resist illegally harassing the women who say things they don’t like. It happens over and over with hate movements -sadistic sex stuff, enjoy hurting, and then it comes back and bites them in the ass and that’s the end of them. It’s their downfall. Hope they keep on with it for now Truth? They’re lying boring bullies They were scary at first with their big bully talk but it’s now clear, they are poseurs. Violence? Only if some outlying mentally ill fool takes a notion. The core group…poseurs.

    The woman MRA said she couldn’t actually remember the things she thought radfemhubbers said, then threw in her imagination for the world to look at and consider for legal purposes. Cyberstalked women are no doubt considering the extent of her libels right now. The whole thing’s on tape. Cyberstalked women stand up for what they said. Nobody can demonize them when they’re speaking the truth. Men oppress women, male violence has to stop.

    Gotta say, doxxing the doxxers will happen. It’s a fair response. It’s different from the obvious lawsuits. It’s cheaper, and it’s quid pro quo. Can a doxxer complain?

  24. Yes, I agree. I have been in very violent situations and lived with the threat of violence from men IRL, so I am not unfamiliar with self-defense items and how to use them, but I’m also aware that I don’t like being put in that situation. It’s a horrible thing to live with day in and day out. I still live in a state of constant readiness, constantly armed – I even carry inside my home! – because of previous rape and death threats and my personal knowledge of how quickly someone who wants to carry them out can spring into action.

    But, life online is fraught with its own dangers, which you can see if you read, just as ONE for example, what they did to Vliet Tiptree for writing an article they dildn’t like: http://avoiceforcreepymen.blogspot.com/2011/11/creepy-comments-from-voice-for-men-by.html

    The internet is such that you don’t have to go someone’s house and beat them up, like one of their kind apparently did to a student in Queens University in Canada, to assassinate them – and most of the time, they’ve been carrying out their attacks against women online. This is not deadly, but it can still be potentially devastating.

    Yes, these are animals… they don’t deserve to be on the same planet with us. I’ve come to that conclusion. And, the violence directed at us is so extreme that it leads to discussions of how we can eliminate that threat, which I think is very reasonable under the circumstances. Avoidance of men is the first thing – to try to get as far away from the potential danger as possible, but the problem is they’re not going to let us. As they say, they have infiltrators – they advocate harassing, cyberstalking, and doxxing along with whatever unnamed threats l lay behind Janet Bloomfield’s statement that we should continue to fear them.

    These men’s first grievance is that women are not doing what they want us to do. This was the central theme of their entire conference. And, the main thing they want is sexual violence against us in some form… this is what they talk about, the promotion of prostitution and the traditional family, which is a code for enslavement, especially since they believe they have the right to “corrective violence” against women and children, don’t believe in rape and believe that men have rights to control any woman they succeed in impregnating, by whatever means.

    Also, I noticed that their entire line of rhetoric was very war-like. They talked about “fighting” and trying to defeat “the evil empire” a la G.W. Bush! They laugh about it, but they are waging a very literal war campaign on us – on ordinary women – and for what? For profit in a fraudulent pyramid scheme, as far as I can tell. But, their words and actions have already had a lot of real and unpleasant consequences for a lot of innocent women.

    • @WOOW

      They think they are soldiers. I can’t say more- sick, insane, bizarre?

      I also can’t fault some women for asking why they are on this planet with male supremacy and what they can do.

      In future I predict women’s places of refuge will grow exponentially.

  25. @WOOW, I see that you have been through a lot and hope you stay strong. Thanks for your work and I also thank House Mouse Queen for this blog and her work.

  26. Thanls for posting Vliet’s blog. It’s the whole shebang. I like how she makes fun of the men cyberstalking her. She’s a powerful person.


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