MRA’s Back to Their Stations To Continue to Harass Women

First, I’m glad this is over, partly. One of my commenters talked about the MRA conference being the safest 2 days of the year for women because the men from AVFM would be distracted and not doxxing and harassing individual women they find on the internet. True to form, near the end of the conference Judgybitch, a FeMRA from AVFM, assured us that doxxing and harassment of women online and into offline would continue.

This is the male supremacist movement we’re dealing with sisters.

I want to leave off, for now, until I can collect my thoughts after listening to MRA’s for two days, with a direct quote from Warren Farrell. Farrell is the guru of the Men’s Rights Movement and while soft spoken and gentle, is a misogynist like all the rest of them at AVFM. He’s also an opportunist like Elam and a charlatan like Elam. This quote was made at the conference during his presentation:

‘We know how difficult it is to talk about date rape. Almost impossible issue to discuss. If you discuss this with an adult woman, if she heard a man talking about fearing rejection and fearing taking the sexual initiative, her mind switches to all the guys who went too far, too fast with her. her mind switches to the guys who bought her drinks largely to get her in bed. So, instead of feeling appreciation for the pain, for the work they did to buy the drinks, she remembers the manipulation, [rather] than the appreciation. But she can’t easily hear the guys plight because it triggers her own trauma. It triggers her legitimate trauma.’


Don’t know why date rape has anything to do with his main point about ‘the Boy Crisis’ but that’s typical of his rambling.This was somehow related to women not being able to hear men’s pain but willing to hear boy’s pain because of a mothers instinct.

It threw me for a total loop when I heard it. It’s as if it’s women’s fault for not being able to ‘there there’ the pain of the ‘Nice Guys’ who buy us drinks and really don’t want to have to rape us.

He brings up the same theme that MRA’s go on an on about. ‘Women don’t like the ‘Nice guys’ and only want jerky Alpha men. In fact, Farrell says that just prior to his mention of date rape. ‘Women want alpha males,’ he says. Also, why the hell would you sit down with a person you’re buying drinks for and talk about date rape? He equates date rape with a guy talking about his fear of rejection. How do those two things go together?

I know how they go together: they go together in the mind of the entitled ‘Nice guy’ who thinks because he’s buying you drinks and sweating bullets, because he doesn’t know how to talk to women, women should just submit. Elliot Rodger anyone?

Women have heard this lament before. How many women get creeped out by the ‘Nice guy’ and do everything in our power not to set him off because we know he’s unstable and entitled? This is because, I suppose, in Farrell’s mind, the ‘Nice Guy’ just wants a bit of sexual attention and damn it, why aren’t women giving it to him? Oh right, because the jerky men are rapists who date raped her and now she’s damaged and won’t accept the advances of the ‘Nice guy.’

It’s this kind of misogynist bullshit that gives Farrell his creepy reputation. Nobody is taking him out of context or misinterpreting him, as he claims. That’s his quote up there.

I’ll be writing more on the con soon. Here is the full second day of the con which was live streamed.



72 thoughts on “MRA’s Back to Their Stations To Continue to Harass Women

  1. It’s an embarrassing misinterpretation of masculinity that’s affirming chronic immaturity which I believe is the cause of so many issues and wounds to the perception of men.

    • I tend to agree, as have the men I have spoken to about this. But in the end those with their rhetoric are irrelevant. Their ‘conference’ has proven that. Most men are not so delusional. Will there be some who go on killing sprees when their delusion gets out of hand? Yes. There will always be crazies…

      HMQ is right though, if men of good sense challenge them you help those on the fence remove themselves from it… But no one fears men like this more than other men. Partially in hopes of distancing themselves from them, granted. But it is still a fear, Good luck to you.

  2. I don’t know what to think of Ferel, except he really sounds like a dinosaur. He’s an anachronism and while that could be said of the others as well, this is the only context in which I can try to interpret what he said at this joke of a conference. His constant theme was men’s supposed biological need or desire to fuck women – everything he said came back to this and back to “relationships” between men and women. It’s an obsession with him – with all of him – but, especially him, I thought. He’s just a dirty old man.

    What I don’t think any of these dudes (or their harassing and trolling minions) understand is that women really don’t want to know anything about them – women don’t want them, don’t want interaction of any kind with them. More and more, women don’t want men in their lives. Ferel is living in a world that is disappearing like a crumbling old ruin and one day, it’s just going to turn to dust and blow away in the breeze.

    I was thinking about Molly-new and his bizarre speech. If I were to see just his opening statements – say his first 5 to 10 minutes – transcribed, I think I could very easily point out a series of bizarre, unrelated statements contained in each sentence in succession. It was one non-sequitur after another. I’ve never heard anything so disjointed and I can only imagine that it was intentional to try to connect some ideas that are not at all related. In this instance to blame women for little boys being circumcised by the members of the patriarchal medical profession.

    Considering the violent, bloody, sexually perverse history of modern Western medicine – namely men getting together to kill women on a grand scale -, this is truly mis-placed blame. If our system had survived above ground, there would be no medical circumcisions of anyone, I assure you. It’s as infuriating as when they use that term “witch hunt” to describe women trying to defend themselves from them online! And, the only guy who had anything productive to say about the subject of circumcision was apparently a paying guest there – I imagine he is awfully disappointed with Molly-new’s speech.

  3. Well, apparently Sworebytheprecious is still alive as of, at least, 20 minutes ago because she posted this update saying she is safe and giving updates of her appalling experience at the hands of the duplicitous, hatemongering bigots (or bigot-hatemongers, if you prefer) of the MRM:

    I think she’s either very brave or a little off her rocker. I’d sooner take a stroll into a cage full of starving lions than do what she did!

  4. From:

    “The crowd of what looked to be about two or three hundred people were diverse and ranged from all ages to all ethnic backgrounds. There were more men there but almost as many women it seemed!”

    Apparently she was at an entirely different conference. lol. In a room that small she couldn’t tell the difference between ‘about two or three hundred’ and that there were few women in it. Perhaps she should watch the video? ;-p

  5. Welp, my Twitter account has been suspended once again. What a bunch of fucking cowards these MRA fanatics are! Keep in mind, these are the same whiny pricks that believe their “free speech” is being infringed upon when Feminists bloggers wont allow them to stink up the joint with perverted, violent threats or the usual rape apologia they are so famous for.

    Twitter is a very public place where THE WHOLE FUCKING POINT is to interact with other people (so long as you aren’t threatening or stalking people), whereas a blog is designed to be a more controlled environment, overseen by said blogger. But you can’t tweet bullshit on Twitter and not expect people to respond, and then send FALSE REPORTS of harassment to support when they FUCKING OWN YOUR ACNE-ENCRUSTED BUTTOCKS.

    Free Speech; it’s for MRAs only.

          • Agreed. I think the way to tell them apart appears to be if they talk like these men seem to *wish* women would, they are not actually women.

            (Unless they are the ones making money off the males’ delusions, of course. There are perhaps half a dozen or so of them.)

          • @sugarpuss, well, I could be wrong about Chloe the Shell. I just read her comments and they went down the MRA line and had that misogynistic tone.

          • I don’t understand how people can clearly see women like JudgyBitch being a misogynist and calling other women “whores”, and then doubt that another person, presenting as female, could actually be female. There’s more than you all seem to realize.

          • It’s really hard to tell when you get on the wonderful internet.
            There’s just this deep denial within me that goes “Na-uhn, no one can be that dumb…they must be joking…right? RIGHT?!”

            But, sadly, a lot of times, these folks are serious. I would love to believe that the women I come across on the internet who says weird crap like “Women have privileges too” are truly just a man trying to put women back in their place.

            Because, my brain refuses to believe that any woman who lives out her every day life couldn’t possibly believe that she has privileges as she sweats bullets for walking out at night, or has to cross over to the other side of the sidewalk to avoid a group or just an odd looking male. I mean, the list goes on as we all know and it just boggles my mind that she couldn’t be aware of these things!

            So either it’s a male [which I hope for sanity reasons]
            or it’s a woman with some seriously deep internalized misogyny that she holds on to for her own sanity reasons of not wanting to deal with the man-made reality we live in.

          • No question they could be women… There are still a few who feel the need to be protected and supported financially by men. But because they seldom see themselves as that (and hence tend to qualify their need), I must stand by my hypothesis that the ones who are blatantly misogynistic are likely not actual women.

            (or it may just be wishful thinking on my part….)

          • @Sugarpuss “It’s not fake. It’s an actual female.” do you know this exactly? and people doubt it because creeps have been caught doing it constantly..
            Usually a google image search finds the photo of the “female who thinks the mra is the greatest thing since penicillin” is a stock photo..or taken from facebook..
            Recent example the twitter #endfathersday
            made up by men/boys..they made dozens of fake “woman” twitter accounts..and spammed outrageous tweets all week to make feminism look bad and drum up support.
            You know, fighting for

          • @thewatchingdog~ Oh my gosh, yes! Just recently I was looking at a conversation going on at the Missrepresentation Facebook and I noticed a guy [trolling] talking with other women and that’s when I realized that I had his exact picture saved to my computer! I used that photo as reference when drawing out locs, so I knew he wasn’t real because I found the original photo at a hair styling place.
            So, yea, got me questioning who is really who on the internets.

            Gosh darn it, there was a site that listed men, who when writing under a female pseudo, actually used pictures of their aunt, sister, wife or lady friend as their author photo. Scary.

          • @FabFro That’s so funny, thanks for sharing that..they do things to stolen pictures to try to foil Google image search ..but there’s tricks to counter that..which i probably shouldn’t post in public. Lest they learn to hide better…lol

          • Oh, I’m an MRA sock puppet? Good to know!

            So, whose hand is up my ass? Janet? Paul? Alison? Karen? Dean? Bane666au? Victor? Another amazing guy/gal I haven’t heard of?

          • The fact is, MRA’s DO pose as females online because they think it gives their misogynist rantings legitimacy. This is echoed over and over at AVFM where, prior to and after the conference, it was a point that Elam and Esmay relied on. ‘Women are part of this so how can it be woman hating?’

            Feminists are a lot smarter than that. We know a misogynist can come in any size, shape, gender identity, race, creed, age, sex or whatnot.

            Personally I don’t really give a fig who you are. If you are an MRA or part of the Manosphere in any way and hold their ideas as true then you’re a misogynist.

            I don’t know whose hand is up your ass and I really don’t care. The point stands.

        • I just checked out Cloe’s profile and Facebook and my vote is “trannie.”

          Also, I see “she” is trying to crowd fund the publication of a book – this seems to be a popular thing with scammers lately!

          • that’s odd b/c the Manosphere has a horrid track record when it comes to transppl. I literally was just reading an article on the Spearhead about Hijra’s in India and it really was horrid.

            MRA’s are also against prostitutes yet the ‘sex positives’ flock to them because they hate us radfems.

            I keep wanting to do an article on Trans politics when it comes to radfeminism but I don’t see any way to do it when there’s so much animosity. I can’t stand the acronym TERF. It’s dishonest. I tell people who use it to stop using it and just say TE instead. To no avail.

            It’s gotten to the point at times where I’ve thought about dropping the radfem label but that wouldn’t be being true to myself and I have to remain true to myself.

          • Of course, I could be wrong – I was just having a little fun.

            But, I’m pretty sure MRAs have worked with trans men to infiltrate women’s groups IRL.

            Like you said, “The enemy of my enemy…”

          • In fact, many of my comments at SPLC are now being moderated because I stated only this: that I was a radfem and that the MRA attempt to paint radfemhub as a hate group was incorrect.

  6. Farrel dood says he’s got 10 points related to men’s rights at the beginning of his speech, but I never did catch what they all are.

    He says, “#1 should be the boy crisis.” apparently, they can’t get laid.

    He starts off talking about men’s dating problems.

    He says:

    “Women fall in love with alpha males, not whining males.”

    “Women survive based on their ability to find men who protected them, not because women needed protection per se, but because they were focused on protecting the children.”

    He elaborates on this and how we’re here today because of women chose the right men…

    “Instinctively, traditional women are more interested in fire fighters.” Huh?! Apparently, he’s trying to say that women want heroes who take action, rather than whiners.

    Continually, his focus is on his insane ideas about what kind of men want to be fucked by… apparently, this is a men’s issue or a “boy crisis.”

    Again, looking at “boy’s issues.”

    “When a woman who is a mom sees her son having problems as opposed to an adult male having problems, women switch from a biological desire to be protected by a man to a biological desire to protect her son.”

    Then, he talks about date rape… I don’t know how we got here.

    Apparently, men are doing work when they buy drinks for women in hopes of lowering our inhibitions, as a ploy for roofying or whatever motive they have for doing this. This is a new angle on date rape, all right.

    I’m not sure what he’s saying here.

    (After backing it up and running it again for the fourth time now!)

    “Is there hope for men discussing men’s issues,” he asks, before he starts talking about date rape.

    Dating is an example for how women have sympathy for boys, but not for men who want to rape her… that’s what I’m understanding here.

    Regarding being date raped, trauma is triggered when men discuss it with women on a date and the women “remember manipulation instead of appreciation.”

    Okay… I have no idea how to interpret this – Date rape is appreciation… or, at least, the “work” men are doing when the get women liquored up for the purpose of more easily raping us is “appreciation.”

    Then, he goes on to extol the virtues of traditional two-parent families. Yes, we all know how well that worked out for Elliot Rodger, who apparently had two loving, indulgent parents who were married to each other.

    Okay, so this dude makes his money as a fungal growth on the ass of the MRM as a speaker, a hawker of crappy books, and by counseling married couples.

    Is there anybody speaking at this conference, who isn’t making a living as a fungal growth on the ass of MANkind?

    Then this moron goes on talking about paying for women… I thought the MRAs were against this and women who got free drinks were whores…

    This man lives in an alternate universe. The good news is he’s an old codger who’s got one foot in the grave.

  7. I never did catch what Farrel-boy’s #2, #3, and #4 most important topics were, but he comes right out with #5 – Men’s Studies.

    The reason there is no men’s studies group at universities is because most of the curriculum is men’s studies.

    What would a men’s studies program look like? Corrective Discipline 102; Roofies 104; How to Beat Your Wife without Leaving a Bruise 300; The Art of Seduction (special guest professor D.S, Kahn) 310… just some thoughts.

  8. Farrelboyz’ Date Rape analogy starts at right about 57 minutes…

    HMQ, your interpretation, as follows,

    “It threw me for a total loop when I heard it. It’s as if it’s women’s fault for not being able to ‘there there’ the pain of the ‘Nice Guys’ who buy us drinks and really don’t want to have to rape us.”

    … seems to be the case.

    I’ve listened to that portion a few times now and he never tells us what the man’s problem is that he wants to discuss with the woman, which she’s not going to be sympathetic to because she will perceive him as a whiner.

    He just leaves it sort of open ended. But, we are never told why a man is buying a woman drinks while initiating a conversation about date rape.. When I first heard it, I thought he meant that the man had been date raped (because you know how these MRAs love to fantasize about being raped by women!), but he never really tells us why the man is talking about date rape… only that he is either appreciating or manipulating the woman, but she is unable to be sympathetic to his attempts to get her in bed by hook or by crook.

    Again, this is a bizarre world these men live in where they have a right to rape women and women who do not want to be raped are the enemy.

  9. There’s a follow-up article on the conference, detailing Day 2, from the SPLC, which you’ll find at this link:

    Check out this detail:

    “Farrell, who once served on the board of the New York City chapter of the National Organization for Women, has come in for his share of controversy and misunderstanding over the years.”

    Who’s brilliant idea was it to let this grizzled old fox into the hen house? He clearly hates women, so why is he serving on a board of the top alleged women’s rights organization in the country. (I’ve never liked or trusted the NOW – now I have another reason!)

    This is why dudebros should not be involved in women’s organizations – I don’t care if it’s a knitting circle! They use the ruse of “equality” to undermine, sabotage and – in the case of AVfM – to infiltrate and destroy, exactly as they stated it is their mission to do at the end of their hate fest.

  10. This crack journalist (and by crack I clearly mean “on crack”!) from Fox News, Elizabeth Hasselback, asks the “fair and balanced” question: Is there a feminist “war on men”?

    I guess she missed all the rape apologia, you know like women who complain about being raped are really just regretting sex or feeling guilty about having sex, and obviously she missed the direct, terrorist threats made against women and in particular radical feminist women at the end of the con.

    Also, in classic Fox News style, they seem to have used footage from some other protest event in this piece since it was reported by more than one source that there were zero protestors, since they learned that protesting this pack of terrorists can prove to be too dangerous. That bit was completely left out of the piece, too.

    The alliance between the Republicans and the MRM seems well-confirmed at this stage in the game, despite the fact that many in the group call themselves libertarians.

  11. Well, I guess the MRAs have a new target, just as predicted. They’re trying to identify the Toronto woman who had CAFE removed from some parade event.

    This article describes the event.

    And, the following was clipped from the comment section with MRAs making their usual threats (very much like the comments collected by one of their other victims, Vliet Tiptree):

    There’s more on this here:

    Elam, also, said some really nasty things about a reporter from Time Magazine who covered the “event.” The reporter is a woman, of course.

    So, how proud are those people at the VFW in Detroit for their part in this nightmare, I wonder?

    • @ rhyming lady, William L. Turner, the attorney you screencapped above, appears to state that he would expect to lose his “marginal” complaint, and that the purpose of filing the complaint would be to obtain the identity of a pseudonymous poster. He appears to be a California attorney, so I would think if he did initiate such a process the first thing that might happen would be a complaint filed by his target with the California State Bar for violation of the Code of Professional Responsibility which controls California lawyers.

      For example, Rule 3-200 of the Code provides in part:

      “Prohibited Objectives of Employment

      A member shall not seek, accept, or continue
      employment if the member knows or should know
      that the objective of such employment is:

      (A) To bring an action, conduct a defense, assert a
      position in litigation, or take an appeal, without
      probable cause and for the purpose of harassing or
      maliciously injuring any person”

      There are also the potential problems, in his taking such an action, of attorney abuse of process, purporting to give legal advice about a jurisdiction where he doesn’t know the laws, protective orders to prevent any discovery of identity, a possible countersuit for cyberstalking etc, a request by his target for her attorney’s fees, and many other avenues of administrative redress for the person he wants to bother. I

      I’m only speaking generally here, of course. It bugs me when a lawyer throws his weight around like this, even if he’s a lightweight like Mr. Turner.

      • Well, I’m sure he needn’t fear even a mild censure. I’ve seen the trail of droppings the MRAs have left all over the internet, and no matter what they do – harassment, threats, conspiracy, doxxing, assaults – there never seems to be even the mildest repercussions.

      • Although, there are these comments, which were preserved by Vliet Tiptree at her blog, avoiceforcreepymen, here:

        “I can recommend a good PI, Paul. The one that turned up your arrests for theft and bad-check passing.
        Paul Elam in reply to Muk
        Well, if it comes down to it, I will find a PI to get the job done. We’ll have to figure in hacker expenses.”

        With an assembly this vile, there must be more than a few of them who have a shady past.

        • Then there are fools like Fidelbogen, who only hates on women because it’s fun for him and he has very little going on in his life. He has backed off from AVFM because he doesn’t want any trouble, He just wants to hate some and then retire to his comfy hole. The ego is amazing with this dude. He hasn’t been doing any youtubes lately, since Tiptree ID’d him. ( He had come out with a hat to disguise the receding hairline and the surprise of horseteeth, but it does appear that Tiptree has nailed him. Can’t blame her, she has had to absorb his hate for a while.

          • I just had a peek at the dude – I see he has some older images of himself looking like the lead singer from 3 Dog Night (in his younger days, of course, and still creepy in my book) and now he looks like someone who steals cars for a living. And that hat! LOL!

            I’ve noticed with some amusement that Dean Esmay likes to use an old photo of himself on YouTube that looks nothing like his current self – it’s a “glamour shot” in which he resembles Zakk Wylde.

            I have yet to see any of these guys who resembles Clark Gable!

            Also, I noticed that most of them – especially the most socially privileged among them (the white dudes) – were very under-dressed for the convention.

          • Uh, easy google: “poulsbo” philospher” “writer”

            Numbah 4. Another site he posted on said he posted from Poulsbo, WA. And that is that is that is that.

          • Yeah, Vliet’s blog nails him. He’s been a leader in trying to harm her. The harassment has been godawful. Why a seemingly normal husband and father decided to try to ruin a complete stranger’s life is a story waiting to be told. Since he can’t resist posting all about his private life, there’s plenty to look at: google “fidelbogen” vliet” and “K. D. Kragen”.

    • The Time reporter apparently asked him about some of the things on his site he has since tried to purge. (The VFW is not very proud of it… I suspect there may be a statement eventually from them. They appear to be desperately running damage control at the moment.)

  12. TeeHee! Dean Esmay says I’m a Sociopathic Abuser™! So I guess it was okay for his boys to talk about titty-fucking Futrelle because fat, but blubberbutt MRAs deserve special consideration. Always the dirty little hypocrites.

  13. @HMQ~ “It’s gotten to the point at times where I’ve thought about dropping the radfem label but that wouldn’t be being true to myself and I have to remain true to myself.”
    Yes, exactly! I too go over if I should drop the radical part, as it seems now being a feminist is tolerable, but being a radical! * Le gasp* , why those are the eeeeevvaaaall wimmiz that take cute fluffy puppies and sllloooowwwly burns them in acid for the lulz!

    So every time I think of dropping the radical part for safety reasons, I realize that I come right back to it because its definition fits me and how I’ve always been, even as a child.

  14. Pingback: Paul Elam Attacking Female Journalist Jill Filipovic | Mancheeze


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