A 6’8″ Tall Man Hits a 5’2″ Woman: Who is This Man?

Paul Elam’s glorifying violence against women today in his doubling down of his ‘Bash A Violent Bitch Month’ article he wrote a few years ago or at least he thinks so. It was actually written late 2013. So much for self awareness.

I am 6’8” tall and 285 pounds. If a woman five feet tall and 110 pounds soaking wet hits me, I am going to hit her back.

I can’t imagine how a tiny woman hitting a man that big would even hurt him, nor can I imagine as a tiny woman myself even thinking about doing it. Rest assured Paul Elam wants to hit women. He thinks this is a grand lesson in violence prevention aka ‘making women pay.’ It really just his wish. He thinks equality means he can respond with violence. This is why he named the article ‘Equality Can Pack Quite a Punch.’

I would do my best to return the violence proportionally, to just use enough force to stop the attack, but I can make no guarantees.

I used to date a man who worked in a prison. He was given instruction on what to do if any man took a swipe or took out a weapon. It’s called restraining. He even had the opportunity to use restraint against a woman who tried attacking me out of jealousy. He didn’t haul off and hit her like Paul wants to do. He just grabbed her arms, put them behind her back and didn’t allow her to enact any violence against him or I. Do you think Elam, being almost 7 feet tall, can restrain a woman who weighs 110 pounds? I think so but this isn’t about restraining. It’s about wishing he could have a ‘reason’ to hit a tiny woman.

The only way to prevent this and the consequences that may result is for people to keep their hands off me.

Who else thinks this way? What man in their right mind would ever suggest hitting a much smaller person? Only a man who hates women. It would be like me smacking my toddler ‘with no guarantees’ because he hit me. Elam wants to perpetuate violence, not stop it. He’s itching to hit women.

I am not getting giddy about it.

Why remind your audience you’re not giddy if that’s exactly what you are Paul?

We can only hope that it will just take more reason and morality, not right hooks, to get the message across that no one should be hit.

The reasonable thing to do here is restrain, not enact MORE violence. That’s the moral thing to do but Paul’s moral compass has been broken for quite a while.

Neither of these camps can understand the simple assumptions that instigating violence is wrong, and that self-defense is a human right.

Paul thinks Ray Rice’s wife instigated the violence enacted against her and that women as a group bring it on themselves. Ray Rice, a football player, was caught on camera dragging his wife out of an elevator after enacting ‘equality’ on her. Here’s the video:

 

He’s still aware, standing, talking. She really must’ve clocked him eh? If this video doesn’t illustrate why ‘hitting back’ is morally wrong then I don’t know what does.

Will we ever live in a society that shuns all violence; that does not glorify it from one sex and demonize it in the other, even when in self-defense?

I don’t know, and I don’t know anyone who does. But I do know that human rights are not something you maintain by asking for them or waiting on anyone or anything to bestow them.

Let’s just keep telling men that hitting women is OK because hey, they’re stronger and bigger and can do more damage. Sounds like a total human rights statement to me. Let’s also start suggesting to hit children who are much smaller too instead of restraining them. We can make this world a better place if we obey a bitter misogynist man who wishes a 5’2″ woman would try hitting his 6’8″ frame to give him an excuse to hit.

 

 

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74 thoughts on “A 6’8″ Tall Man Hits a 5’2″ Woman: Who is This Man?

  1. I think lots of big men want to hurt and kill much smaller women. I had a huge man grab me one time and try to throw me off a balcony. They’ll hurt you any way they can.

    This is why women should avoid men for our own safety, as much as possible. It’s good to be armed, too, although it doesn’t stop all the problems, your prospective killer will, at least, think twice. It wouldn’t have stopped most of the men who attacked me, but it has deterred a few incidents.

    But, the best bet is just to try to arrange your life to stay away from men. In my experience, they only restrain women right before rape – and then, they’re going to hit and strangle you, anyway. Men are just violent… there’s no getting around the facts. And, the ones that protest the loudest that they’re not like that, who try to be your “friend,” are the worst, most insidious ones. They’re just waiting for an opportunity to do the worst damage to you they possibly can.

    • While I think men hitting women is something that should never happen, I disagree that the only answer is to avoid men. I’m 35 years old, and have had 3 long term {and a few short term} relationships. In all my years of dating, I’ve never so much as had a man raise his voice at me. I’ve always made sure, when starting a new relationship, to be on the look-out for any potential warning signs. Any sexist comments are an immediate deal breaker. I always ask about past relationships. If he considers his ex “a stupid bitch”, that tells me everything about him I need to know. Early on, I introduce him to my friends, male and female, just to see his reaction. If he tries to make it obvious to my male friends that I’m “his” {I told a guy who did this that he might as well have peed on me to mark his territory}, I end it. I also always pay attention to the way he treats our server in a restaurant. Men with self esteem don’t hit women. Men with self esteem don’t make derogatory remarks about women {or African Americans, Homosexuals, people with disabilities, etc}. Men with self esteem aren’t threatened by a girl having male friends. Just look at the MRM. It’s a group of self loathing miscreants biggest issue isn’t feminism. It’s that they don’t like themselves. And while I know there are always a few sociopaths who can put on the charm {this is where introducing him to your female friends can help. If someone you trust expresses concern about the new man in your life, listen to them!}, but most men are, really and truly, good people. {P.S. what that man did to you is disgusting, and you need to know that it wasn’t your fault! Have you ever thought about seeing a counselor or joining a victims of domestic violence support group? Healing on your own can be hard–if not impossible. There are some great resources out there that can really help with finding a sense of peace. Lots of love to you sister!}

      • Yeah, well you’ve just been lucky so far, sister. Be grateful, but don’t try to tell me how to live or assume that I have poor judgement skills.

        I’d never seen the dude who tried to throw me off the balcony before in my life. He was a random stranger.

        Despite whatever you’ve read, men don’t always give off signs or signals before they become abusive, even in long-term relationships.

        I do not care to be around men. I don’t want relationships with men. I have that right. I will exercise it.

        Maybe you should reconsider your own heterosexual socialization… pull the log out of your own eye.. before you judge others.\

        Most men are not good people… The only reason they’re not running around raping, maiming and killing more of us right this very minute is that there are laws created by themselves to protect themselves and their own propoerty.

      • P.S. What on earth – or in anything I said – would make you think that I think men attempting to murder me is my fault?

        And, what makes you think that victims of crimes are the ones who need counseling? Why? So, people like you can tell me how to see men properly – that they’re not all evil bastards, that I must be the one who has a problem (poor judgement, something in my past that attracts me to abusers, low self-esteem)?

        I hope you get a dose of your own medicine. But, just keep hanging out with dudes… you will, eventually.

        • Vraydar,

          I think I may have fed a troll here… I just looked up the term “concern troll,” and I’ve decided that’s what you are. You are full of passive-aggression and faux concern for my choice to avoid men.

          I’ve had a lifetime of other people’s deep concern about my reproductive organs and how they are being used or not used.

          At first, I thought you were just a seriously misguided woman, poisoned by the patriarchy and living under the false belief that you need a man in your life to be complete. But, I now believe you are a troll. So, don’t bother responding to me. I will not reply to any comments of yours in the future. So, you’re going to have to find someone else to preach your destructive hyper-heterosexual lifestyle to. I won’t even bother reading your comments, again.

          • I’m not a concerned troll and I deeply deeply apologize for offending you. You’re right, I’ve never been hit. Just reading your comments I realized how insensitive mine were & I didn’t mean to. I was caught up in the “living in fear” and it broke my heart. I never meant to make you feel bad and I apologize tremendously. I am of the it’s never ever ever ok to hit a woman camp. I’ve always felt empathy for victims of violence…but the realization just now in the pit of my stomach of how, until you’ve been there, you don’t know. I hope with all I have you can forgive me. My comments were from the in good faith….but I wasn’t seeing past my privilege. I do apologize and I hope you can forgive me.

      • You can disagree that it’s not your way but many of us have sustained incredible violence at the hands of men. That’s wonderful you’ve never had that experience but it’s not common. When I ask a group of my female friends if they’ve been raped I can guarandamntee you that at LEAST 3/4ths have. It’s a part of women’s experience.

        You are correct that men with self esteem don’t hit women. Men with self respect don’t hit women or abuse either. However, there are too many men that do and unfortunately we, as women, as a whole, deal with structural inequalities, from lack of reproductive freedom to rape culture.

        I don’t think saying most men are good is helpful to women, especially since it tends to go against women’s lived experience. If women weren’t subjugated we wouldn’t have feminism. We wouldn’t be here if there weren’t lots of men who WANT to abuse us as indicated by the post you responded on.

        Also, many men hide their abusive nature until they get closer to a woman and then rape her or abuse her in some way. I don’t date men any more.

        I don’t know how you meant to come across but it does seem heteronormative and seeing as the context of this blog is to expose the incredible amounts of misogynist men online and off, it set off an alarm.

        Women on this blog tend to be radical feminists who understand just what we’re facing from men.

        • Thank you, HMQ.

          I was thinking about the part of her comment where she talks about men never raising their voices to her. None of my rapists or attempted murderers raised their voices. They didn’t say much of anything that I can remember. I do remember sadistic laughter on more than one occasion – men enjoy raping, they love women’s pain, it brings them intense pleasure and not just of a sexual nature. It’s something else.

          Men will sometimes work very hard and long to get you in a situation where they can attack you. To do this, they have to win your trust. This means *not* giving signals, not raising their voice at you, talking a good game on women’s issues and such. Those men are the most dangerous, although I’ve had plenty of dangerous situations with strangers.

          My *role* in the attack involving the balcony, simply involved me walking from point A to point B near a balcony at a time that a man decided he wanted to do violence to a woman who was much smaller than him. There was no other motive that I know of. I’d never seen the man before. He didn’t raise his voice before he picked me up and dangled my over the balcony. He didn’t give a warning – didn’t call me a name or anything. That’s just one example of a situation involving a huge, violent man. Such men attack women for their own pleasure and there doesn’t have to be any real motive. Evil doesn’t need a motive. It just is.

    • Re: That link. I’m wondering how J.B. would just happen to know who started the hash tag when that person refuses to identify herself.

      Again, more accusations of death threats from feminists, although, the person who allegedly started it remains unidentified to others. This makes no sense.

      This is just more of AVfM making a silly spectacle out of themselves, as usual. At least, they’re not mass murdering or setting things themselves on fire, at the moment.

    • On AVFM, there is an hilarious article where Dean Esmay compare #womenagainstfeminism with the fall of the Berlin wall and Martin Luther King’s speech ‘I had a dream’. Oh, and the Magna Carta and Nelson Mandela’s release from prison. What are they smoking? Seriously, think abou it. I wouldn’t want to be in their heads…

    • If a man half my size attacked me I’d thump his skull, why do you think a woman can attack me and I can’t defend myself by beating the shit out of her like I would do to a man? Your approach isn’t equality there babe. Jus sayin. The lesson here that I’ll mansplain to u is nobody should attack anyone, and if u are attacked u have the right to defend yourself. You welcome

      • You’re using the context of ‘defending yourself’ as an excuse to batter someone usually smaller and weaker than you. That’s not getting rid of violence. That’s promoting it. Stop playing little linguistic games. We see who are the violent ones here who want to perpetuate it.

      • If a child throws a rock at you, do you pick up a rock and bash them in the skull? What about elderly people?

        Small men are still stronger than the average woman, btw. Male-bodied people have a greater muscle-to-fat ratio than female-bodied people. Even if they *never* work out. I hope you enjoyed this mini biology lesson. 🙂

  2. Check out this video with JB debating a feminist:

    Most of the commenters agreed that Tori was level-headed, calm and respectful, while JB was obnoxious and bigoted. Many commenters, including those sympathetic to MRAs, called JB a bitch. I hope she does more interviews because the more visibility she gets, the more people will see the Men’s Rights movement for what it really is.

    • Judgyditch is ridiculously stupid. She doesn’t think a SCOTUS decision is a big deal? She obviously doesn’t understand the diff between gender/sex and then got VAWA wrong. I just can’t believe how dumb she is. She’s also flippant which makes her look even more dumb.

      • I don’t think I’ve seen an MRA discussion in which the MRA participants have any understanding of the difference between sex and gender. In fact, they got it all backwards – big time -in that vid with the three dudebros complaining about being called dudebros, which you posted a few days ago.

        The difference between sex (a condition of birth) and gender (that which is forced on us from the time we are infants as a means to groom us for life in the patriarchy) is absolutely fundamental to understanding feminism. If they can’t grasp that simple concept, then nothing else about feminism is going to make much sense to them. They’re idiots!

        But, the MRM are proponents of gender. They have this in common with the hostile tranny men-who-think-they’re-women.who keep trying to break into women’s spaces demanding to have sex with lesbians. Furthermore, I don’t understand why it’s so difficult for so many people – including some liberal feminists and alleged feminist allies apparently – to understand the difference between sex and gender and why gender must be eliminated if we are to have freedom and peace.

        Also, regarding this vid, why would they get 4 people together to have a discussion about a subject that none of them seem to know much about. Tori did a fine job considering she has only recently declared herself a feminist, but where did they find her? Was she a YT commenter or something? She’s not anywhere close to being an expert on feminism. I’m amazed she didn’t know who Sarkeesian is and when she didn’t this unleashed a bunch of abuse and lies from the dudes on this show directed at her.

        Again, if this is a real show… I don’t know who these people are and I don’t care.. but, if they’re getting some kind of actual revenues from somewhere legitimate, a company that serves women and their needs, for example, maybe they should know about this. I’m not feeling very good about Audible right now.

      • And, yes, she’s wrong about VAWA completely, but what she says in this video is the exact same spam that MRAs will plaster all over any discussion about this subject.

        In fact, back when they were still talking about whether or not VAWA was going to be renewed, there was a vid with Joe Biden (who actually sounded sane for a change) talking about VAWA and why it should be passed. They explained that the name is the original name, but it now includes male victims of DV, and they were, also, trying to make special provisions for the epidemic of rape by white men of women on Indian Reservations, as well, as addressing the problems of immigrant women and children. It was a very nice speech by Biden and a couple of other liberal politicians who I usually don’t like trying to defend VAWA from Republican men (it’s the old men on the left vs. men on the right dichotomy that Dworkin talked about). I was just learning who MRAs were back then and I remember seeing these same spammy statements over and over again beneath the video. At the time, I didn’t know why they were doing this because clearly not a single one of them had listened to the video they were commenting on. Now, I know they were probably all just MRA spammers and what JB says in this video at about 8 to 11 minutes in is their little “sound bite” on the subject of VAWA. It’s a cut and paste, basically.

    • I’m trying to listen to this video right now. I don’t know how much of J.B. I’ll be able to take – she literally talks like a drunken sailor. The *only* time I hear language like that these days is when I listen to MRA videos. Again, decent people don’t talk like this. And, fortunately for me, when I am around other people, they are mostly pretty decent and no one talks like this. I don’t know where this is normal or acceptable speech. But, it isn’t here.

      The Hobby Lobby example is not, itself, a war on women, but if you research all the legislation in opposition to women’s ability to obtain health care in the U.S. – even when you have the money to pay for it – there has been an astonishing lot of anti-woman laws passed. It’s clear that legislators want women to suffer and die just based on the kinds of laws they have passed in direct opposition to women’s health and well-being. And, that’s just the health-related legislation. There are other aspects to this “war on women” being waged by legislators. I think we established that J.B. is in Canada, so maybe she is not aware of how the U.S. system works and what has been going on here. In which case, she should educate herself before going on a drunken, profanity-laced tirade about things she clearly knows not the first thing about.

      The Hobby Lobby case may, also, have some other far-reaching consequences. For instance, if you work for a company owned by Scientologists, they may choose deny you psychiatric medication on the health plan, which you are forced to pay for as part of your employment agreement. Or, if you go to work for a company owned by Jehovah’s Witnesses, who will not pay for certain procedures, especially blood transfusions, as part of the health care plan, you are forced to by as part of the terms of your employment with them. I am sure there are other examples.

      If Audible really did sponsor this vile show with all of this disgusting misogynistic language, then they should be boycotted. Maybe Audible doesn’t know what it’s sponsoring. Why is this kind of hateful language directed at women okay? It’s not okay with me. It’s abuse and I’m done listening now. I made it about 18 minutes. This is horrible.

      • There’s a typo in the second paragraph from the bottom that renders the sentence nonsensical. Instead for “forced to by,” it should say “forced to buy.” So, with the Hobby Lobby ruling, you are forced to buy something by your employer, but then if your employer is a Christian who hates women – and probably didn’t really want to hire you in the first place – then, he can deny you that which you should be entitled to under the law because you’ve already been forced to pay for it.

      • I think you made it longer than I did. I sure as hell didn’t make anything over 20 mins. I couldn’t stand Judgyditch’s ignorance. She’s quite clearly strawmanning and is a right wing traditionalist lunatic. She didn’t even understand the concept of gender or the difference between sex and gender in theory. Once you fail on that it’s over.

        • I was surprised that JB didn’t understand the difference between sex and gender in theory either. According to her, she majored in Film Theory at college and took a lot of Women’s Studies courses, which is supposedly how she came to realize that feminism was a fraud.

          Some of things she says don’t make sense.

  3. Hi, I haven’t read the underlying Elam article ( I refuse to read the dude), but I can say with accuracy that the Elam dude is about 6’1″ and weighs about 250. Whoever he’s referring to who is 6’8″ is not him.

  4. FYI the women against feminism Facebook page has 18000 likes and the pics look like normal intelligent women unlike what you feminists think of them. Figure I would mansplain a reminder for you all. Have a lovely day you sexist misogynists.

  5. The main question for me is who put the site up and how come so many Polish women seeded the site. Surprised no enterprising journailaist seems to be looking into this.

    • They are ‘Polish models’ (read: mail ‘bride’ girls) its how they make a living. There are journalists on it… Though it has become a bit of a joke, so who knows if they will consider it worth an actual article. Binder has already commented on the Elam connection… I would like to see Seder go after it.

  6. So the creator (a woman) has received numerous death threats and your concerned about the nationalities of the posters? So do polish women don’t count in your ideology? Lemme guess mras are behind the death threats right? All 18000 “likes” are sock puppet accounts right? Let’s go even further Paul Elam made it all up right? Keep up the good work children!

    • I’ve seen the site and the fact that it’s gotten 18,000 likes hardly means that feminism is dying…considering that there are over 15,000,000 women between the ages of 18-24. 18,000 is just barely over one-tenth of one percent. Big deal.
      There have always been women who have rejected feminism and women’s rights ever since the movement started over 150 years ago. That didn’t stop women getting the right to vote, higher education, the right to work outside of traditionally female occupations, marital rape laws, etc. Women Against Feminism isn’t going to reverse anything.

      • Who said anything about feminism dying? You got put in your hateful bigoted place by a bunch of other women. The only thing that has anything to do with dying is the death threats the female creator had received from feminists. Too bad you couldn’t get the fb page taken down. Maybe there’s a fire alarm somewhere to pull.

    • Well, as one who runs a Facebook page for a money making blog, it is very possible that those “Likes” were bought and paid for. I get offers nearly daily from companies making offers to increase my “Likes” (for a fee of course).

    • Dude, we know it’s a crock invented by a dude and spoken through a woman. I’m a radfem and you have to start understanding that this dumb FB page means NOTHING. It means NOTHING. It’s good for a few media stories but that’s it. You MRA’s can talk about the Berlin Wall thinking that’s an accurate metaphor but dude, it ain’t.

      Feminists are laughing at it. If you really think we don’t understand it’s a media campaign by men and some women that were paid to do it, then you’re not paying attention.

      There are always some women who don’t understand feminism and then strawman it and then go mouth off about it for male attention and validation.

      We’re activists dude, not media campaigners. We do things that matter in the real world. That’s why feminists work on things like Hobby Lobby. We’re not too deeply concerned about a few thousand paid women that aren’t even from North America.

      Got it?

  7. Mythago, you say you know – who is the maker of the site? Thank you. Also, I would like to know, since it’s a mystery, why the arly posters seem to be mostly from Poland. If the site originated there that would explain it, otherwise yes, it is rather strange.

    • Bella,

      I agree. The blue butterfly avatar caught my attention – it’s ultra-creepy.

      The link I gave by mistake goes to someone book or excerpts from a book on military abductions and the Monarch program in which girls are abducted and mind controlled for use as sex slaves. I’m sure it’s just a coincidence – but it was the first thing I thought of when I saw the butterfly. Also, those girls all look very, very young. Monarchs are all very, very young because they kill them when they get older and their programming starts to break down.

  8. In lieu of a physical altercation, Elam and friends threw some punches with their instigator conference in Detroit and now here comes their #womenagainstfeminism creation. What are they cooking up next?

    • They are running out of options to try to gain converts… Paying ‘models’ is the latest. The deflection of attention on to the journalists didn’t last as long as they planned… They underestimated how many would know that the situation with the child was… odd to say the least. If I had talked to Bucky during the conference, my advice to the other conf. goer would have been totally different. I wish I had known then what I know now.

      • Some of their forums reveal that #drunksexculture to debunk rape culture is next up. Also, they may have an ‘article’ coming out that advises men in college to assume American women cannot consent to sexual activity under any circumstances and its not worth ruining their lives over a hyper emotional “feminist-marinated” confused college girl. They are advocating that men only ‘date’ off campus with non college women who live and work in the surrounding local community, including newly arrived foreign women. wtf

        • Sounds about right… They paniced when Matt handed Elam his head. Their forum was full of “we need someone young to be a figurehead’ sort of comments and bizarre ones about his hair (apparently because he has his own still…) The college thing is a desperate attempt to get young men to join. After a bad breakup a few will, but leave as soon. They don’t want old men telling them how to live…

          (Which reminds me, at least 2 of the young ones at the conference were told by parents they ‘had’ to go or their father’s wouldn’t keep footing the bills- I found it amusing when i was told… it said a lot about the situation 😉 )

  9. Uh, now I really am interested. The quote below is from Janet Bloomfield’s blog (I don’t link to MRA blogs – use care if you go there).

    I thought the #Womenagainstfeminism stuff was from somewhere way outside AVFM or even the manosphere – that it was some Polish anti-feminist or something and went viral – but it turns out that the hashtag owner is such good friends with Bloomfield that she has asked her to take the credit for starting the site! It’s looking like it’s another AVFM project with the usual suspects. The anti-feminist online world apparently consists solely of AVFM and its psyops.

    Am I reading this wrong? Wouldn’t everybody be all over the Web talking about how the site is just another AVFM dirty trick?

    But she says this on her blog –

    “Joe
    July 28, 2014 at 23:23 #
    Wait, you founded Women Against Feminism, Janet?

    REPLY

    judgybitch
    July 29, 2014 at 19:49 #
    I didn’t, Joe, but the woman who did has gotten so many death threats from feminists she is happy to have me take the credit. We have spoken and she is genuinely afraid for her family.”

  10. There will never be any documented death threat here, just as there never was any documented threat at the Detroit MRA conference. Saying so without documentation doesn’t make it so. But throwing it out casually never fails to elicit MRA hand-wringing about “evil doxxing violent feminists”, and unfortunately that’s the lying meme that remains after the MRA lie.

  11. How is that dispute with the Doubletree going, I would like to know. The letter from Elam’s lawyer referred darkly to damages and breaches etc, but it seems like Elam won’t be pursuing any of that. On the other hand, it may be that the Doubletree has a claim for damages against Elam, which might result in clearing up the “death threats” at some point.

    Anyway, Elam is not to my knowledge doing anything to follow up regarding the conference “death threats”. That’s all getting whisked under the rug, seems like.

    If MRAs or #womenagainstfeminism have ANY death threats from feminists, why don’t they quote the threats and provide whatever information they have regarding the culprits?

    All that ever remains is undocumented accusations against feminists, which a lot of MRAs seem to take as fact after they hear it said enough.

    When all the time it is AVFM doxxing and making veiled threats against feminists.

    The feminist “death threats” are reversals, we know it, they know it, but they just keep deliberately rolling them out as part of their dirty propaganda strategy.

    • The Detroit conference and the WAF thing are all propaganda. But to what end? Do they just like to sit around and laugh at how their goading angers feminists? Because really, what negative effect does WAF have? Feminists will go about their business as usual despite WAF. Maybe the best thing is to not pay attention to it. It takes away time from valuable work.

    • The hotel has proof from the police department (they told Bucky and others that they were hired by AVfM to look like there was a danger) that Elam used it while claiming it untrue. He can’t win, not with the date on that letter… Last I heard, the hotel intended to fight it.

  12. @Tefo, that’s a very legitimate question I ask myself a lot regarding AVFM. Why do I care what AVFM does, and isn’t spending time dealing with its constant stream of shit taking time I could use for pro-active, positive feminist activism? It’s not even interesting – what they will say is so predictable, and the participants are so boring as people – maybe it’s because they are a microcosm of misogyny – and so actively destructive, at least they try to be – it’s like watching a bad horror TV series you’ve gotten hooked on –

    • AVFM appears to be the first organized and tactical group that shamelessly refutes nearly every feminists talking point and concept and mocks the parlance that is now decades in the making. Feminists are good at taking on issues of concern but there is not a lot of practice defending feminism itself…at least not against an organized group intent on taking over the dialogue. So understandably, the first reaction is to attack them and they know that will happen and are ready for it. When its an individual doing it, its easy enough to shame them or make them look stupid especially when saying feminism is about equality. But this AVFM is even ready for that with come-backs and they are not concerned about a reputation as an individual would be. Basically, they are untouchable.

      • They just think this is larger than it is. It’s basically a flash in a pan. Feminism isn’t dying and AVFM is just a propaganda machine. Nothing more. Nothing less. They don’t counter feminist theories. They just cement them. They just want some changes in the culture but they’re not going to ultimately get them. They may win a few battles but it won’t make much difference. Women aren’t going back into the private space no matter how much those dudes want it. It’s just a whiny party of dudes.

  13. Intelligently said, Tefo. I only differ with you one one point. I don’t think AVFM is untouchable. Elam is sanitizing his site as we speak, but the attempts at re-branding aren’t working, because blogs like this one remember it all – everything they did – none of it will get swept under the rug – the Net does not forget – they will never be able to legitimate themselves, and this is where they are very touchable, they will increasingly want to look legitimate. They can throw a thousand conferences with right-wing homophobic Canadian officials and cult leaders and self-appointed “gender theorists” – but they won’t escape their own words. If Elam cares about men’s rights, he ought to shut down his blog and disappear.

    • That is true if people (the public) do read those words. But the American public responds to sound bites and sensationalism. Anti-feminism sounds better than MRA…they recently experimented with that approach and now they will run with it. But still, why does any of this matter? This is new territory and the outcome is uncertain. If one was to speculate, AVFM is going for building a body of work that could influence legislatures and judiciaries. If that happens, feminists should consider launching a pro-feminist campaign but that takes away resources. AVFM may have the ability to raise much more money than feminists could since so many people with money may be people who don’t like feminism. They recently raised $35k in less than a day.

  14. @Tefo, very true about the American public. In a way, yes, I suppose it is uncertain. I tend to think of male supremacists/MRAs as laughable, and the mainstream considers them laughable, after 50 years of feminist work. I tend to think they will shout themselves hoarse and go bye-bye.

    But it has to be considered that these people are also the patriarchy’s extreme little thugs, and that the patriarchy indeed is very pissed off at feminism, and that they have a deep well of hatred of women to draw from –

  15. Don’t want to change the subject, this is just an aside. I’m reading about women’s lives in the 17-18th century and it’s remarkable how rich their lives were and how much men controlled every aspect of women’s lives.

    Reading about their struggles and comparing it to today we still have a TON of work to do, especially the struggle for complete reproductive freedom. Knowing how women in the past were nailed down from pregnancy it makes me understand deeply that we need those rights.

    I was reading the first few lines of a post on AVFM about how the cheeze heads think men in those times did everything to make women’s lives that of royality is hilarious. It just isn’t true.

    They think men working in the public sphere and ‘caring’ for women financially meant that women were living the lap of luxury in a gynocentric society. MRA’s are numbskulls and I blame Karen Stringbeanhead for leading them down this path. It doesn’t take much time to read about women in those times and how restricted they were and how patriarchal society operated and how it still operates today!

    Did you know women legally DIED upon marriage? Yeah, that’s total equality and gynocentric!

    The idiots over at AVFM always make me lol.

    • “Did you know women legally DIED upon marriage?”

      Sometimes they physically died shortly after, too. In my on genealogical research, I have numerous grandfathers who married an older sister, who soon died in childbirth, so he married the next youngest sister, who subsequently died in childbirth, so he married the third one!

      Women were apparently so pampered – clearing fields of rocks and trees, fetching water from the well, plowing the field behind a mule in the hot sun – that they died really, really young.

      I do have some ancient aunties who lived to a ripe old age (the men and unmarried women in my family who didn’t meet with a horse-related accident or abduction by Indians often lived well into their 90s) and left a will with some interesting personal commentary.

      The average person in Victorian times was not a member of the Vanderbilt family! In my family, they were either pioneers and early settlers or American Indians. The women, especially, were not exactly living in the lap of luxury – they were doing what they had to do to try to survive. Then as now, relations with men often proved deadly.

  16. My god did you see how the went after Jessica Valenti of the Guardian on twitter yesterday? Some of the most disgusting images, Dead bodies..dead firefighters with her shopped laughing over it..Screaming babies being hurt or dying with her splashed in the middle “This is what a Feminist looks like” pictures of weapons sent just to her with barely veiled threats.Fake quotes pasted on her picture..pictures of her boss at the guardian..sent to her work..

  17. This is O/T, but I wanted to bring it to your attention, HMQ.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-intersect/wp/2014/08/04/mens-rights-activists-think-a-hateful-feminist-conspiracy-is-ruining-wikipedia/

    As you probably already know Wikipedia has a “woman” problem, as in very few women contribute to it, at all. It’s a well-known boy’s club. I heard a feminist podcast a few weeks ago about a university that was trying to change that and teaching women how to use Wikipedia. (The reason why a lot of women don’t contribute, in my opinion, is that it’s basically a mob of men there who have relegated historical women authors, for instance, to a separate section apart from the clearly more important (although in nearly every case inferior) men authors.

    Nonetheless, apparently yeti-man has gone on some kind of tirade recently about Wikipedia being ruined by a “hateful feminist conspiracy,” which is the subject of this article.

    The person who wrote the article said that the MRAs wanted to abolish marriage and for a split second, I though I’d finally found something I had in common with them. But, then Yeti-man comes in to correct the author on that point – they don’t want to abolish marriage, they’re just opposed to its current form (the one where it’s illegal to hit and rape your wife and in which she can obtain a divorce from you).

    I’m no fan of Wikipedia, by the way. I use it. But, I hate it. It’s not a reliable source for information on certain subjects, especially those outside mainstream thought. There is a very strong Christian bias because that’s the mob that runs the whole culture here, so it’s reflected at Wikipedia. But, I think the dudebros are complaining here because they cannot get away with misrepresenting historical facts.

    • I was a very active editor there until this one person with some power knew I was Jewish and when I tried editing some of his crazy shit about Israel and the conflict he came down on me pretty hard.

      I still do have an editing account over there but AFAIK AVFM is blacklisted.

  18. Womenofthewoods I feel so bad for you, your sick and you need help. All men are murderers and rapists, all men will hurt you, just wait for it, eventually the guy thats loved you for years will rape and murder you in your sleep. If these are really the things you think I beg you to get help, your not living in reality. I doubt this comment will even get up because it seems like any dissenting opinion is taken away, but please, get help

  19. Pingback: Michael Flood: A Voice of Reason | Mancheeze

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