Justifying Rape

Rape is a huge topic in the Manosphere, from the insistence that women are always filing false reports due to ‘regret sex’ to the posters AVFM made in response to an effective public postering campaign by SAVE to educate people on consent. The slogan ‘men can stop rape’ is an anathema to MRA’s. Their response to the slogan is curious. They think they’re being called rapists. The question is ‘why?

Men Don’t Worry About Rape

Then there are MRA’s like John Hembling aka JohntheOther who make videos saying ‘I DON”T GIVE A FUCK about rape victims!’

Recently he double down on the video in a new one titled ‘I still don’t give a fuck about rape’ after furiously trying to erase his old video by falsely DMCAing anyone who had a copy. In this video he addresses me as a Youtube feminist.

In a recent conversation with an MRA named George Booth over on this article an MRA made this comment:

First, women dress up to go out dancing, to be attractive.
Second, women dance in such a way to be sexual and thus attractive. That’s rather the fun of it, eh?
Third, to ‘go out dancing’ means that women intend to dance with a series of men, therefore actively attracting them closer.

And then, she drinks.

Upon consuming alcohol, she is suddenly – ACCORDING TO THE LAW – impaired and incapable of giving considered consent and any man she has attracted and then has sex with her, has – UNDER THE LAW – raped her.

Since women now have these nifty new laws to “protect” them from being taken advantage of, a woman can’t legally say “yes”.

So, I’d pretty much have to agree that – LEGALLY – any woman that goes out drinking and dancing is at least asking to be raped. Remember! All rape is rape!

This is one reason among several that I just don’t care about rape anymore.

He’s saying that women who are dancing and wearing certain clothing are doing it for male attention. Male attention means rape.  Alcohol is the secondary component that he thinks should absolve the man of doing what is ‘natural’ and that the dancing and clothing mean she’s asking for it. This seems to be the mindset of MRA’s and plenty of other men too. Are men just too stupid not to rape or are they feigning ignorance hoping the spotlight doesn’t shine on their coercive strategies?

When I asked this MRA what clothing and dancing had to do with anything he claimed that the clothing industry was a ‘multi-billion dollar industry.’  This typical mansplain is what I like to call the MRA ‘skipping needle’ routine where once you corner them logically they skip to a new topic, a new song on the vinyl.

Rape Isn’t That Bad Because It’s Natural

I ran across another MRA blog called Deansdale’s Blog where he questions the severity of rape in a post titled ‘How bad is rape, really?’ He makes a hypothetical list of 12 horrible things that could happen to a person wherein the last 3 are rape scenarios. He tells women that if they didn’t choose the last 3 rape scenarios they’re crazy.

So what’s the purpose of men trying to compare rape to other horrid human tragedies? What I find interesting is that women must choose an option, and therefore must choose rape. What are women complaining about when it’s not as horrible as a drunk driver smashing your hipbone or becoming financially bankrupt?

Men keep rape around because it’s a tool of oppression. If men truly wanted to eradicate rape they’d be postering their locales with ‘Don’t be That Guy’ posters and educating themselves and other men about consent, not posting on their blogs about how insignificant it is compared to other human tragedies. It does suggest, in this case, that Deansdale recognizes the magnitude of suffering a rape victim endures.

I’ve seen many men, and especially MRA’s say rape will never go away and that it’s a natural occurrence that’s been going on since the dawn of time. This is yet another mansplain to let women know men intend to do nothing to stop it and want it around to use to keep women in fear.

False Rape Accusations Are Worse Than ‘Real’ Rape

Recently, Jonathan Taylor of A Voice for Male Students published a piece on false rape accusations on AVFM titled ‘Ten Reasons False Rape Accusations Are Common.’ In it he uses anecdotes from the mass media.  The study MRA’s use to declare false accusations are common is Kanin’s study. It’s so methodologically flawed it should be removed from any serious discussion of this issue. MRA’s also like to point to the Innocence Project which uses DNA evidence in old rape cases to exhonerate the accused who’ve been convicted. However, MRA’s never explain that those who are exhonerated are usually black and just a case of mistaken identity, not a false claim.

The Duke Lacrosse scandal is another oft mentioned retort to the argument that false rape accusations are rare. What wasn’t so rare about that case was a bunch of white jocks hiring strippers who weren’t supposed to be black and then yelling racist shit at them while they stripped. That kind of entitlement, the jock who thinks he can do what he wants, is everywhere. This one case doesn’t remove the Daisy Coleman’s and the Oksana Makar’s from the world. The fact is, for every case Jonathan Taylor cites as a false case, I can name 100 that aren’t false, that are happening now.

In his list Taylor claims

‘Female students are systemically taught that sex is rape when it is not, essentially being taught to make false rape accusations.’

This is patently false as Universities are giving freshman students lectures on sexual assault, what it is and how to report it. Taylor scoffs at universities clearly laying out what sexual assault is. He takes issue with things like verbal sexual harassment of women by brushing it off as not important but he’s really angry that colleges are being incredibly specific on how to not sexually assault women. The reason, in my view, is that it becomes harder for men to do what they’ve always done: coerce. Now that it’s more difficult, men are angry. Sexual assault isn’t  important to men because they don’t experience it the way women do.

Taylor tries to boost his thesis by listing out-of-context feminist quotes. He quotes Carol Bohmer: ‘In this book we will be using the term victim to refer to people who claim to have been sexually assaulted.’ This is supposed to be Taylor’s gotcha moment. Problem is he didn’t read the book because it was taken randomly from a page on Google Books.

Perpetuating Rape Culture

On the men’s rights subreddit there’s a post called ‘What Feminism Taught Me About Rape.‘ As you can already guess, the post is flooded with sentiments on rape culture and is exactly the opposite of what feminism teaches. One MRA defined ‘acquaintance’  with incredible detail because he didn’t want to accept that a man a woman knows intimately can rape her. He also complains the statistics will be inaccurate if we count intimate partner rape.

Your best friend who you know well and trust intimately is not likely to rape you. Most rape is committed by “acquaintances.” A man you met at a party who rapes you later that evening? That’s an acquaintance. The way statistics are tabulated, a prior relationship of “5 minutes of conversation” counts the same as “being your best friend since grade 2.”

Men love to tell women how to handle rape, not how they, as men, can prevent it. One MRA recommended women fight back to ensure physical evidence and that women who do fight have a good chance of stopping the attack. Once again the onus of stopping rape is on her. He cites a stat but never the source. It was obviously pulled from his ass. Another MRA added

‘As someone else said, encouraging women to not be victims and fight back would actually stop a whole lot of unwanted sex, but feminists would be out on the street screeching “teach men not to rape” within 5 minutes.’

He warns women about drinking as if women are not allowed to drink like men drink, which is exactly what that means. He doesn’t comprehend that making women change the amount of alcohol they drink is a form of victim blaming. What he’s teaching other men is that a drinking woman is partially at fault and asked for it. Notice how he switches the language to ‘sex?’ This word substitution for rape is prevalent in men. To me it signifies that men think rape and sex is a blurry concept. Why else would they switch words? Thunderf00t is notorious for doing this too. This is a perpetuation of rape culture.

How Can We Stop Rape If We’re The Rapists?

In this comment an MRA reinforces the notion that it’s the deranged male psychopathic and not average men who are doing the raping.

‘The typical sexual predator has sociopathic personality traits and low-empathy, which makes education a completely ineffective means of reduction. Men who rape do not rape because they are ignorant of what rape is, men who rape simply don’t care’

First, he’s wrong about men knowing what rape is. Judge Michael Mettyear of the UK recently showed a rapist empathy because he wasn’t a ‘classic rapist.’ Also, a UN survey in Asia asked men about rape, without using the word, just scenarios of forced sex and asked them if they had engaged in it.  Many of them did.

The majority of rapists are men. This is undisputed. So why are men so offended and change the subject when we ask them to stop raping? The answer to me is clear. They want to continue this practice and oppression. They want the blurry lines where coercion is an option. I know that when a bunch of MRA’s gather on a  reddit thread talking about rape that they’re going to continue to perpetuate rape myths and tell me, as an individual woman, that not only do I have to be afraid of these guys but that I will be victim blamed if a man chooses to rape me. It’s a choice to rape. A choice.

Many men don’t see it as a choice. They see it as inevitable. That’s part of the problem. If you see rape as something that can’t be stopped, which is what men tell us all the damn time, then the oppression and rape of women will continue. The oppression of women by men in this way is something that can never be tolerated.

When you get an MRA to acknowledge that false rape accusations are incredibly rare, the FBI says 8% are unfounded (not necessarily false), they retort

‘any good cop knows that is a lie. the f.b.i. is getting to where it lies almost as much as its boss. probably replaced good men in power w/ halfwits and weirdo’s like in the rest of government.

with practically no punishment for making false claims, and long before reason returns to honest men, one might reasonably expect the real rate to reach 8%, in the other direction (8% true). false accusations don’t really cost women and girls anything. you can’t even put their names out there to be punished by society as innocent men are from the first false accusation.’

Just call the cops and the FBI a bunch a liars and use the term ‘real’ and you’ve got mansplaining rape down perfectly. The Edmonton police put the rate at less than 1%. I guess those cops are just lying too right?

Rape On Campus

In California, Bill 967 is causing men to quiver and, in my opinion, for no reason at all. This bill forces universities that are getting money from the federal government to step up and adopt a new preponderance of evidence standard along with clear guidelines for students, faculty, local police and local women’s services to handle rape.  Men aren’t happy that now the rapist is the one worrying about crossing a lower standard instead of the victim trying to prove an almost impossible one. Some men are suing universities for expelling them after being found guilty of rape. I think that men finally bearing the brunt of responsibility is the right way to go. It will stop being women’s sole problem.

I also think, and have stated in the past, that men do know how to ply women with alcohol and they appreciate the fact that there’s space for them to get away with coercion because the beyond reasonable doubt standard allows them to say ‘she wanted it.’  I expect a lot of lawsuits brought by men at their colleges. It’s all part of male backlash.

Hans Bader from Legal Insurrection disavows the bill because he says most communication is non verbal and ‘haggling’ shouldn’t be a part of sex, especially with couples who know each other. Hans obviously doesn’t know much about rape though because most rape is between people who know each other. His is a legal opinion but also a male one. He argues that sex between long term couples will now be considered rape. I don’t understand how that could be unless ONE teensy tiny thing is given: consent.

It’s also apparent from the comment section on Hans’ article that men are infuriated. One commenter writes, after giving us a lesson on the ‘nature’ of men and women:

‘So, the whole idea here seems to be to give females a chance to get revenge on males if they feel day-after remorse. For the most part, the females voluntarily put themselves in the position they found themselves in, with the full knowledge of what might, or maybe was likely to, happen. They got drunk, hooked up, and regretted it the next day. Maybe the guy didn’t call them back. Something like that. But, before thinking that the females can only win, keep in mind that males are more and more dropping out of the dating/mating game, and are getting harder to nail down into marriage, as the reality that the deck is stacked against them becomes obvious to more and more of them.’

The comment section is full of disgruntled men who now are put on the spot to have consent, enthusiastic consent, and they hate the idea. I can’t help but think that they’re overreacting. Some of them are purposely making this complicated:

‘Just handout sexual consent forms at Freshman Orientation. And, remind the male students that whenever they receive one from a female student to make sure that it is notarized.’

I see no women in the comment section, just men. They know they can’t coerce anymore. One of them even flat out admitted that this kind of male pushing and female resisting was just part of normal relationships. I suppose that’s why education about rape and consent it so important.

‘How remarkably weak the women of American college campi must seem, if they need this kind of “protection”. Perhaps we need to revisit the whole “co-ed” idea, and segragate these delicate flowers from the ravishing males.’

It’s Women’s Job As Usual

Women, we are stuck with this mess because once again, men won’t take responsibility or lift a precious male finger to help stop rape. In fact, I bet every MRA on that reddit thread has no idea what consent is, what rape is, or what it might look like one day to acknowledge that rape culture exists. MRA’s aren’t interested in solving problems. They love their echo chamber just too damn much. It’s telling that they label themselves rapists when seeing a poster of three men coercing a woman who is drinking alcohol.

I found a comment on Ms. Magazine blog from a male that pointed out that men really do know what consent is but they don’t want to stop coercing women:

I’ve been out of school a long time, but if memory serves, it really wasn’t that difficult to determine if a woman wanted to have sex. Believe me, guys know what “no” means, if for no other reason than we’ve probably heard it more often than its opposite. Since sex is an activity that both parties–the last time I checked–are supposed to enjoy, taking advantage of someone too intoxicated to know what’s going on or forcing someone to do something violates the victim, the law, and the ethical foundation of physical pleasure with another human being. Any man who claims he didn’t know she didn’t give her consent is either lying or so obtuse he should never have been admitted as an undergraduate.

Men can stop rape but they don’t want to.

 

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4 thoughts on “Justifying Rape

  1. Pingback: AVFM’s New and Improved Misogyny, er, Mission Statement | Mancheeze

  2. Women who go out dancing may be looking for sex, but that doesn’t mean they’ve consented to sex with any man who happens to be interested. News flash: even women in nice outfits who dance in bars have the right to choose who they have sex with and who they do not.

  3. Whenever men tell us about themselves, it pays to listen. I know there are people who will say “not all men” and most recently it’s come to my attention that there are “not all MRa” advocates, as well. But, this is one thing I can agree with the MRAs about, raping seems to be in men’s nature. This doesn’t mean all men rape, but it’s something lots of men (maybe most) do or would like to do. There are studies to this effect and my own personal experience with men reflects this fact. Now, these men are telling us who they are and what they do.

    Also, Booth’s commentary reflects men’s ideas that women’s appearance, dress or whatever else women do to feel good about themselves is for them. As far as they are concerned, the world centers around them and women are simply objects or props, which exist only for their personal enjoyment. It never occurs to them that an attractive, well-dressed dancing woman might be a lesbian or married or simply not interested in having sex with anyone. Everything in the world revolves around their dicks and women are just one more “thing” in *their* world, which they believe they own and, therefore, have the right to destroy.

    We’ve said this before, HMQ, when people are telling you about themselves and what they’d like to do to you, you should take them seriously. I’ve been taking it all in and all it does is confirm all my previous suspicions about men, in general.

    • I do take them seriously. Absolutely I do. This is why I don’t have male romantic partners. They try but I refuse. If they want to be friends, that’s fine. Oh I didn’t tell anyone how I’m handling the dude that wasn’t listening to a word of mine and just wanted to stare and touch me. I dropped him like a hot coal. He was ok for the first hour, while he was finishing dinner and I was helping. Once he finished eating though it was like I wasn’t there anymore. I became simply an object that he wanted to fuck. I’ve had a few days to think about how this really went down. I also remembered something I had forgotten he said. He knew for weeks I wanted nothing other than friendship. When he was clearing his plate to the sink he muttered ‘We’ll take this slow’ as in, I’ll manipulate you slower until I get what I want.

      Here’s the thing. I was cool as a cucumber. I was in a great mood. I could tell after dinner he was gearing up for his big manipulation but I didn’t let it show. I just ignored his goofy eyed stares. Like I said in my earlier comments, I gave him lots of rope just to see what he’d do with it. However, after he cornered me walking out of his washroom, that was it. I couldn’t ignore that. That’s when I wanted to leave and get ice cream. His souffle fell with a crash. Suddenly he was tired and cranky. When he was in his manipulation for sex scheme he was talkative, awake. He was suggesting I stay till 4am (I think he was talking to himself, reassuring himself that’s what I was going to do).

      Men have to get it out of their minds that spending money on a date= women give them sex. That entire equation has to be surgically removed from men. Once they see women as complete human beings and not sex objects, they’ll stop manipulating women and will be able to talk to us like equal human beings. The problem though is what they consider equal. We still live in a patriarchal society so even what we think are new paradigms are still tainted by the system in which we live.

      MRA’s think if they stop being courteous to women, it will solve this problem. It won’t. It’ll just make men look more sociopathic than they already are. You don’t stop being nice to another human being. See, in their minds they’re rebelling and saying ‘if I don’t get sex no more, why do I have to be nice to women?’ They’re still in the old system. The human system would be ‘I do nice things for others because our society depends on it, because I’m a kind human being.’

      It’s the purpose of feminism to get gender roles out and keep our humanity. Men can’t do that because they still are too concerned with their entitlement to sex, women’s time etc. Once they stop the entitlement, I think we’ll have a better shot at a decent world.

      I’ve been reading anthropological work on matriarchy, which is NOT the opposite of patriarchy. If you go to my adjacent blog Mancheeze at Home, we can talk about that there. I did an intro post and officially opened it but I haven’t promoted it here yet.

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