Changes? Monday Open Thread- No MRA’s

With my 45th birthday this Tuesday the 23rd I’ve been thinking about a few things. The first is whether to have a fundraiser now or wait a month until the blog is officially a year old. The second is whether to switch blog themes.

Happy B-day to MEEEE! I'm 45 years young!

Happy B-day to MEEEE! I’m 45 years young!

I have no theme picked out but I’m not truly happy with the narrow column posting especially how the comments seem so confusing when nested because the text area is so narrow.

The fundraiser is just well, fundraising, because this is what I do full-time, along with making videos exposing MRA’s, which means I spend a lot of time sifting and watching entire shows. It does my head in but it’s very time intensive. I think my blog is pretty enjoyable and most of all it’s necessary.

Many of you have expressed the sentiment that this blog, with it’s radical feminist analysis, is a breath of fresh air when it comes to exposing MRA’s through that lens. While I’m ok with liberal feminists and I do recognize them as feminists, I do not agree with the arguments based around ‘well it’s just a choice!’

Here’s a video from the Canadian Senate discussing Bill 36 which was written after 3 of Canada’s prostitution laws were struck down. C 36 is about protecting women and children and is based in part on the Nordic model of criminalizing the buying of sex and of course pimping women. It also has very strict guidelines for how a prostituted woman can advertise herself. [1]

This bill is slated to pass before the end of December.  Here is a recording made by ExposingMRA’s (Youtuber) of a lawyer explaining that prostituted women are not doing ‘sex work’

There are a couple other videos on the channel from the Canadian senate on C 36.

This one explains most radical feminist analyses of prostitution and is brilliant. It’s aptly named ‘Prostitution is Not a Choice’:

Finally, this is inspiring. Call yourself a feminist and learn what it is.


65 thoughts on “Changes? Monday Open Thread- No MRA’s

  1. There’s already hackers threatening to leak nude photos of Watson. Men use porn and sexual harassment to put women in their place and remind us that they hate us. These misogynists are proving Watson’s points about the need for gender equality.

  2. HMQ, I can help you make a new blog header if you like. I have the Adobe software and I’m only a beginner at using it but if you have a design in mind I can put it together for you.

    • Thanks for the offer. I also have Adobe Suite Cs3 and I do love doing art but there is a piece I’d love for you to do. The other day I saw John Hemblings vid about him raising 100K to get a nuke for Iran so the Arabs could wipe Israel off the map. Someone on Twitter said ‘shark officially jumped.’

      I was thinking of doing an art piece of John jumping a shark with one tooth and Elam riding on the back of the shark with lots of cash in his hands. LOL

      Just LOL

      The header I’ll do myself if I change the blog style. But thanks for the offer!

      • Happy belated b-day House Mouse Queen and thank you so much for your blog. Your vids are good too. I actually discovered you from WHTM and although David’s site is good, yours was so much better for me especially the links that some of your posters provided. I’m actually embarrassed to admit a year ago I thought “mitgow’ was some exclusive auto club (or something like that).

        Good luck also with the fundraising and site re-design. I appreciate your book club section (hope you keep it). I’m slowly plodding my way through Susan’s book and hope to finish in the near future.

        You do an awesome job of dealing with trolls, some really toxic ones. I do feel that I’m in good company here, thanks again for everything.

  3. I think you are the only female-run anti-MRA blog on the web. There are a few others but they have other agendas as well. I appreciate your blithe approach to a relentlessly bad situation.

    Donated. No need to wait, folks!

  4. Way to go, Emma! The more she is attacked, the more the world sees this video of her UN speech. The personal cost is awful but it seems that’s what any woman has to go through to talk about equality of the sexes these days.

    I have the feeling that the inchoate misogyny of many men is solidifying as groups organize around it, including right now organized and still-organizing groups like AVFM, PUAs, MGTOWs, 4chan, gamers, tradcons (including many women), religious fanatics, angry divorced men, mensrights subreddits like the redpill and mensrights, guns-righters, MtF activist extremists, porn addicts, online atheists, johns and pimps, wife-beaters, rape apologists, and other segments of society where “charming gentlemen” (Elliot Rodger’s phrase) hold sway.

    These guys are just various fronts for the much vaster misogyny slithering around in our mainstream cultural, economic, and political institutions. Since they haven’t got an argument, just blind hate, they’re relying on dirty-trick strategies right now, but as time passes I think we’ll be seeing the mainstream getting involved, and not in a good way. Right now it’s a propaganda war,

    • To add to my comment, it’s not entirely a propaganda war considering the constant attacks on abortion laws, and other reactionary IRL forces.

      And women’s progress in wages, education, and social freedom, though spotty and incomplete and not yet fully encompassing women in poverty, women of color, and women with disabilities, has been astounding considering it’s been occurring for only a century or so in a few countries. Measure that against ten thousand years of human civilization.

      I think human consciousness has elevated with regard to women’s equality, as it has elevated with regard to attitudes on slavery. I don’t think, regardless of the ferocity and undeniable strength of the forces of reaction, that humanity will revert to these earlier levels of consciousness.

  5. Thank you for all the hard work you put into this blog!!! As someone who is new to the Manosphere it has been an invaluable source of information.

    I wish you the merriest of birthdays!

  6. Happy nithday to the host.

    Sex work is not work?

    That is lack of respect to sex workers.

    I am comited “john” (I slept with more than 100 professionals) and I respect them a lot.

    • It’s a lack of respect for the majority of prostituted women, the one’s so commonly forgotten about that had no choice, which is most of the industry. I’m not interested in a few happy hookers. I’m interested in the structural inequality of women that FORCES them to suck cock and get beaten for money.

      The fact that you’re a john repulses me.

      • Johns ought to be drawn and quartered in the public square… not just jailed, which they rarely are.

        If this dude is for real, he shouldn’t have the right to brag in public space about paying to rape women and girls. He’s a predator and he has committed crimes against humanity.

        Men have no shame. They’re absolutely disgusting. They are, also, dangerous because you may know a few johns without realizing it yet. They see women as a commodity and think it’s okay to sexually assault us as long as they throw some cash at us afterwards! I don’t have the words to describe the level of disgust I have for this commenter or the millions upon millions of men just like him.

        • Agreed. He’s gone. I had the same idea. To brag about it and tell ME as a woman that I’m shaming women he pays money to rape is sickening.

          He buys women. He’s not man enough to actually please one.

          • I don’t know if it was that dude’s comment or something else, but I keep having a thought over and over, again, this a.m. You know how it is when you have a train of thought, but you can’t remember exactly how it started?

            I keep remembering the New Testament, John 8:11, in which Jesus tells a woman who is being condemned as a prostitute that he does not condemn her, but she should “Go and sin no more.”

            How seriously fucked up is that?! Men “sin” against women when they force us to submit to their dicks and other sexual perversions by destroying our economic opportunities and under-paying us. The woman in the New Testament story was a victim, but Jesus, being the alleged son of God and chief dick-wielder, accused HER of sinning and failed to recognize that she was a victim. Jesus, who taught men to fish, turned water into wine, restored sight to the blind, resurrected the dead and so on, dismissed her by telling her not to “sin,” but didn’t provide her with any way out of her life of horror and misery at the hands of perverse men. Wouldn’t you think this guy could come up with some way to help her out? Instead, he accuses HER of sinning and tells her to just knock it off.

            That has got to be the basis for some of the sickness we are all living with in Christian-dominated countries. Prostituted women are not equal partners in “sin” with men. This is an ancient system men have put in place to destroy us – and then BLAME us for their sickness! Even the West’s head high holy dude, who was supposedly a man of great compassion, didn’t do anything to help a prostituted woman. Yes, he stopped some men from murdering her, but any normal, compassionate, humane person would have done the same thing – it’s hardly something someone deserves a special medal for.

  7. You didn’t “sleep with” them, Spaniard. You used them and you assaulted them. When you “sleep with” someone, you don’t have to pay them because in consensual sex no one exchanges money.

    • He left another 4 comments which I’m not going to publish that were on the lines of mansplaining how he’s giving them pleasure and yada yada yada and so on and how he’s so cool and he tells us this to piss feminists off. Basically he’s a shit lover who can’t sustain a woman’s pleasure. I bet he treats fingering like a furious attempt at rubbing out a spot. Ugh. Guys that can’t please women and then who brag about it are disgusting. Totally disgusting. To be on this planet for at least 40 years and still can’t figure that out yet must be pretty sad.

      Then again, a lot of guys don’t know how to please women in ANY way. They watch porn and think that’s how real sex is. And even in my generation where we didn’t have online video porn the guys still weren’t that great.

      The best times for me was when I was with a woman. She KNEW automatically what was needed.

      • Re: The john “pleasing them.” Men are such idiots!

        I’ve never been able to figure it out, either. All I can guess is that it’s some kind of mass brain damage caused by testosterone in their systems.

        • I mean to say that I have not been able to figure out why men do these things – like insist on sticking their dicks and other objects in women and girls and doing and saying all kinds of sickening things to us. I can’t understand why this is so important to them, why they are so driven to harm us any way they can.

          You’d think, after all this time and effort, I’d have some greater understanding, but I’m convinced they are simply some sort of half-human/half-demon whose real purpose is to feed off of us.

  8. WOOW, you have talked about moving to the country to adopt a more separated lifestyle. Do you think it is easier to do that in the country or in a town, based on your experience? I live in a town but dream of the country. On the other hand, as I joke with friends, there is always a “Mitch” next door to come over and see to what extent you can be pushed around, to vigilantly watch your comings and goings, to drive around in his tractor and blast his weedwhacker and let his pitbull run free and get drunk and go to sleep in your driveway and fight with his GF, etc etc. He usually shows up unexpectedly one evening with a six-pack. Forget about wearing your robe to go get the paper, or sunbathing in the back yard. Mitch is always ready to help, the cost being that he will get into your house that way, talk your ear off, and get ideas.

    Mainly, it seems like Mitch needs to encroach, as if your property is a body, a challenge, or a vacuum that must be filled. His old pickups keep inching further and further in front of your place, his tree limbs drop leaves over the fence, his projects put him on the roof looking into your bathroom, etc. I get some of this in town, but there are more group rules that keep Mitch in check I think.

    Good old Mitch!

    • V,

      I find the more isolated I get from people, in general, the easier my life is.

      It is much easier in the country than it is in the town to avoid men.

      Also, if you get into the right red state county, there aren’t a lot of laws about anything. Here in the U.S., you can defend yourself and your property to an extent that would not be possible many other places.

      I’m in one of those places and the meth problem (which is epidemic) aside, there’s not a lot of crime here and people generally mind their own business. If you’re very different (lesbian, atheist, practicing witchcraft, etc.), you are better off not to rock the boat, but, generally speaking, people don’t go out of their way to cause trouble. They tend to assume the status quo and if you can blend in, you can find some peace.

      • Thanks for the response, WOOW,

        Yes, the meth problem exaggerates the usual violence in the town too.

        How can one avoid men? One goes to the little store or the P.O. to pick up mail and there’s a crew of cowboys hanging out and it’s their place, and you’re a prize cow that just ambled in. Or walk on a trail, fewer people means more iced up dudes meeting you and finding an opportunity. All the lawyers, doctors, accountants, handypeople, officials and so on will be men. There won’t be many women to talk to either as they’ll be under control and you’re bound to be seen as odd since you’re not. I find the whole atmosphere of red counties so masculine I feel uncomfortable just going in the diner for a cup of coffee. Guess that’s why I stay in a “blue” town, more people around, more aware women, less of that overall atmosphere.

        • V,

          If you pick a place where there a lot of retirees, it helps. Also, I watch when I go out to do anything. I pick hours when I’m not likely to see many people. If you shop at the right hours, you’ll mostly see little old ladies. The butchers are men. Sometimes clerks are men, but mostly they’re women.

          I avoid the post office. It’s a bad experience all around here. A private mailbox is the way to go, then pick up the mail at a time when no one much is there. There’s only one dude and three women who run mine. I don’t visit the mailbox very often – only when necessary. You can do almost everything digitally these days.

          The problem comes when you have to hire work done at the house. You can only hire men. I’m having horrific nightmares now because I have a man working in my house. Having to have my door open has led to other problems with men, which I’ve mentioned in previous posts.

          It’s impossible to completely avoid men and their disgusting behavior – and violence, entirely.

          There’s a big liberal enclave not far from here, but those people drive me nucking futz! I like to shop there, but I’m always glad to get back home. The Jesus freaks are scary, but they are a constant – I always know how they’re going to react to certain stimuli. I, also, have certain things in common with them.

          Liberals, on the other hand, are a mixed bag – they’re unstable and unpredictable. Women are treated like shit in both places – so, I just prefer something a little more predictable. Outside of being atheist, I don’t feel I have much in common with most liberals. They just drive me insane.

        • In this right wing Christian-dominated area, we have almost zero street harassment. You can walk down a sidewalk here on the busiest thoroughfare in the neighboring town and no one will bother you. You won’t hear honks, insults or threats of any kind. People mind their own business pretty well in that regard.

          But, several years ago, I had a job in town (ironically, I thought it would be healthy for me to be around some “nice” people) dealing with the public up close and I ended up quitting after I was assaulted by some old geezer – he had his wife and maybe two other couples with him. But, he came up to me, put his hands on me and got in my face in a threatening manner – it reminded me of the time that I was forced out of my vehicle and held at gun point and nearly murdered by some men.

          Because of what he did, I had a terrible panic attack and decided that it just wasn’t safe for me to be around people at all, anymore. Also, old men – even in the company of their wives – sometimes behave inappropriately. They look you up and down and often the wife is standing behind them rolling their eyes. I don’t know what that’s all about. I guess men are just pigs – and violent, too – and they just don’t stop, even when they get really old and can’t get away from their wives.

          When I just don’t interact with many people, I feel a lot better. So much has happened to me that any interaction I have with people represents a risk that I can be re-traumatized. I don’t think this is a way anyone would actually choose to live. It is not a free choice for me. But, if you’re around people, then you’re going to be around men because that is how things are ordered and if you’re around men, it’s just a game of Russian Roulette. One out of any number of them is going to cause you terrible harm – because, I guess, that’s just what they do.

        • V.,

          Something else – since I’m on a roll here thinking about the challenges inherent living among liberals vs. conservative Xians – it really is just a matter of picking your poison.

          My experience is that the liberals can be, at least, as sanctimonious, preachy and dictatorial as the Xian conservatives. With the Christian conservatives, there is more an expectation that you conform to their ideals, which is why, as long as you don’t rock the boat and do as they do pretty much, you can live pretty well. By contrast, the liberals are much more obnoxious, in-your-face and demanding that you conform to their cult-like ideas – and they are as changeable as the wind!

          What libs preach at you and get in your face about is different from what Christians preach. The Xians are pretty predictable and, as long as you acquiesce on certain points, you won’t have a problem. With libs, you don’t ever know what you’re going to get. You must accept _________ pet lifestyle-of-the-week or else.

          Also, what I see a lot from the lib fems a lot is NAMALT (Not all men are like that. In other words, if you’ve been raped a bunch of times and want to avoid being raped again by avoiding men, then you are a “bigot.”) They have their pet causes and women’s interests are not really one of them. It’s a facade. They are fake friends, at best, who will stab you in the back. They pander to men because down deep inside they’re afraid to do anything else – which is, of course, entirely understandable. I get it. I just don’t want to deal with it.

          With the conservative Christians, there’s never any question about where you stand. You, as a woman, are a second class citizen. Men are your superiors. Men are akin to god. Men obey god; women obey men. Many of these Christians have secret “lifestyles,” but around here we know who these people are. If you’re a swinger or your a dude who wants to sodomize teenage boys, everybody knows where they go to do that and you can get away with it as long as you go to Bible Study on Sunday and serve the patriarchal establishment well enough. How I wish I could name names because if I could (some of these people are famous!), you’d know *exactly* what I’m talking about. So, you can be a freak here, as long as you keep up the Christian facade.

          From my perspective, if that scheme works for them, then it works for me. That’s just how it’s played here.

          If you’re one of those people who likes to wear lots of piercings and multi-colored hair or something, then this would not be good place. The liberal enclave would probably be more comfortable for such a person. But, if you can blend in a little and not rock the boat – visibly, at least – then, you’ve got it made in a place like this… I can’t change anything, so I just go with it – at least, on the exterior.

          • Those are great points. It’s a question I’ve never considered. I do think liberals are harder to live around because everything is a fucking conformist fad.

            It is hard to pick the lesser of two evils. You make good points.

            Separate living is the way to go.

    • A few years ago, we had a problem here with people letting their dogs run free. I used to have to have a gun in my hand to be outside because of a tag team of a Rottweiler and a Pit Bull. I don’t know what happened – maybe a law changed. The people who owned those dogs (the Rottweiler belonged to the meth dealers – I understand they are a favorite pet of tweekers!) moved away.

      It is legal here to shoot a strange dog in your yard here. So, people tend to keep their dogs home.

      Yes, I have “Mitch” right now, but really this is fairly rare – if you consider once every five years “rare.” He’s probably going to kill someone here or get killed, himself, and if not he may end up in prison like some of the last batch did before he’s done here. Still, this situation is not as bad as others I’ve been in.

      Of course, I’m just beginning my all-night vigil to make sure my house isn’t broken into by “Mitch.” And, I’m brewing my third decoction of my own special blend of herbal tea to calm my racing heart-beat and the occasional chest pains I’m having. It’s better today.

      But, I have been in so many worse situations – especially living in a city. Imagine living in New York City and having a situation like this, for example! I love New York, but what’s going to happen when Mitch comes hurling into your living room to beat your, rape you and steal your stuff? Are you going to even have a chance at survival? The answer is, “No.”

      • Thanks for your comments about your choosing to live how you live, WOOW – it’s fascinating. You do raise so many good points we could talk for a week!

        Hope your night was eventless. I know exactly what you mean about workmen. I appreciate what they do, pay fairly, am nice, bring them water etc etc. About half the time there is trouble. Of course the surprise money tack-on at the end is always a problem as women are socialized to just pay what is asked. I take it as a given that I’ll pay more than the price we settled on every time. I can’t afford to have them mad at me as they know my security systems. Also ubiquitous is their assumption that they now have your time at their disposal to tell you their life stories and political opinions, and to have you answer their personal questions about you. I wear a “wedding” ring, talk in “we”s, put out male shoes onto the porch, dress as homely as I can, etc – it’s funny but not if you think about it -.

        I have had to hire two men for separate household work this week. I’ve been avoiding it but thought if they were both around at the same time they might talk to each other. It did help so I’ll use that strategy in future. But one of them leaves his heavy ladder in my yard every night and they both leave tools that could be used for a break-in. I did have to hear about rotten child support from one of them and the mean ex and how he’s writing a book about UFOs and ghosts which he sees all the time. I just nodded because I was in a vulnerable position.

        I also do double security when these jobs are happening, and wake up several times at night thinking I’ve heard something. It’s an acceptance of reality to do so.

        Last year a handyman did put his hands on me and did scare me in my bedroom. What could I do? Tell him to fuck off? It would only have angered him into more harm. I backed away quietly. A few years before that a handyman broke a bathroom fixture hopelessly rather than fix anything. I didn’t dare complain and paid him. Why? Because I found I was alone in the house with an ex-con who suddenly started talking angrily about his years in prison for assault.

        Women could easily do this work but this is an example of the real situation – legally, yes, and rhetorically, sure, and theoretically we can do this work. But in REALITY in the time I’ve lived in this “liberal” area I’ve found only one company run by a woman in the entire county that does any of the traditionally male trades work, and she went out of business. There is great opportunity for women in the trades but we aren’t there. I do appreciate the work workmen do, but it’s such a demonstration of intimidation when they get you alone. I suppose it’s partly because a woman is paying them and it pisses them off at some level.

        • V,

          Thanks. It’s been strangely quiet. My heart rate has been going down. I did a little work out last night and it got up, but went back down to a normal rate. I’ve been drinking a little decoction of valerian root I brew with a few other things. It really helps.

          I’ve had some terrible experiences with handymen, too. I got rid of one that was getting too friendly – asking a lot of personal questions about my marital status. I seriously think he was looking for a place to light.

          Then, I had two A/C men in a row ask me out on a date. I found that a little creepy. Right this moment, if I were to have an cooling and heating problem, I have no idea who I could call. I shudder at the thought.

          I was feeling very tense about having some furniture delivered recently and I was “talking” – like we’re doing here – with someone over at my blog and suddenly it hit me why! I was sexually assaulted by a furniture delivery man back in the late 1990s. I’ve had some other things delivered since then and I don’t think I was nearly as anxious because I remembered *why* I was feeling so anxious.

          The truth is anytime you have to open your door and let a man in, you don’t know what he might do to you. It might be nothing, but the fear is there, nonetheless, because it is an unknown factor.

          Recently, I was looking for a woman to buy insurance from. I could only find two in this area. There’s just gotta be more, I think. But, when I look online, that’s all I can find. And, I really don’t want to deal with a man, if I can help it, mainly because of all the stress I feel around having to do that.

          The men who do handywork network with each other. This is a major reason it would be hard for a woman. But, the biggest problem is that if you go out to someone’s house to fix the pipes (I’m pretty comfortable with water pipes – I’ve thought to myself, “This is a job I could do, if I had to.”), as a woman, you may not make it out alive. While you’re under the wrench with the kitchen sink, a man from that house is going to come up behind you, drag you out by your feet and start raping you. When you turn your back on a man, literally for a split second, this is what he does. And, it may not happen at the first 10 houses you service, but it WILL happen and it probably won’t take long. And, when it does happen, everyone will say what did that dumb bitch expect when she decided to become a master plumber?!

          I’ve also had the sense that my handyman may not like working for a woman. But, it’s only a vague sense – I could be wrong. I think he likes the money. And, so far – – – so far – – – he has been very fair. [*Fingers crossed for luck*]

    • I read it yesterday. Brilliant. I loved it.

      Just the name ‘he FOR she’ is perplexing. Now I know her meaning is men should take action with women and get in the ring for equality.

      However, you can also interpret it as he ‘instead’ of she where she gets wiped out.

      • Yes, I had to hear “He for she” a few times before it finally dawned on me what they were getting at. Maybe “He for her” would make more grammatical sense… or not.

        I understand what they’re trying to do here, but I think it’s utterly futile and it interesting that the take-away I’ve seen is that “gender inequality hurts men, too,” in other words, “What about the menz.” Everything comes back to the penised ones and what matters to them. We can’t EVER have a discussion about what is going on without talking about the poor downtrodden menz.

        One of the articles V. mentioned does a nice job pointing out the difference between gender and sex. The language that these people use is perpetuating the problem – is this intentional? It seems to me it is. And, this means that these people claiming to be our advocates are weaving a tangled web of lies and misrepresentations – typical liberal feminist B.S.! – and any woman who trusts them does so at her own peril.

        The liberals feminists are the ones who’ve made such a mess of things. It’s increasingly difficult for me to support anything they do. I absolutely do not trust them. I do like Emma Watson, though. Someone may be playing her like a fiddle, but I do like her and that was a very nice speech she gave.

      • Re: “However, you can also interpret it as he ‘instead’ of she where she gets wiped out.”

        Yes, this is exactly how I understood it the first few times I heard it. Maybe this is the REAL point of it all.

        Of course, if she had stood up and said what really should have been said – the truth about what men are doing to women and how it is based on sex and not “gender,” she’d probably be getting far worse threats.

  9. I take Emma’s speech as an illustration that the backlash has been so successful, we are back to square one in terms of public perception (but not at all in terms of reality where women continue to show their mastery in so many ways). Yes, I’m reduced to being grateful that there was a sincere lib fem speech to the UN. It’s all square one stuff. Let’s hear it I say.

    Meantime, women continue to outperform men in so many ways where they were never permitted before. No wonder men are scared stiff.

    And radfems await and deal with the backlash. We never thought women would be simply treated like equals in the workplace and in higher education. We knew ways would be found to attack them. We understand the attack on Emma is basic as what she says is the mildest possible feminism.

    I thank her for saying what she said even though it’s painfully basic. Because nothing more advanced can be said in today’s climate without destroying the speaker. I think Emma will be all right. But let Beyonce, or Oprah, or Cher, or Emily Blunt, or Hillary Clinton, or so many other pop figures, say anything truthful about the situation, and yes, their careers will still be over, though this is the 21st century.

    • I know. I really do empathize. It’s silly that we still have this kind of reaction to women’s rights in 2014. Men aren’t going to give up the control so easy. They will kick and scream like toddlers all the way down. Slowly. Oh so slowly.

      Oh there’s another endeavor that needs to be dealt with irl to help women out. I don’t want to make it public but it needs doing.


    I somehow doubt this. I’m so firmly against legalizing prostitution because it will undoubtedly lead to increases in sex trafficking. I do agree however that the stigma needs to be removed but does legalizing prostitution help that? The situation is more of a social one than a legislative one.

    The study the article mentions clearly states that women make up the majority of prostitutes with some anecdotes that confirm that most of them turned to sex work because of a lack of any other options. Does that not show a power dichotomy between prostitutes (mainly women) and buyers (mainly men)?

    Will sex workers really be safer if it is legalized? Considering how rape and sexual assault are handled in the courts, I somehow sincerely doubt that the jurors would give a fair verdict to any female vicitms who are sex workers because legalizing prostitution is not going to magically remove the stigma of sex work.

    Also, considering the effects of objectification on the minds of men and women, wouldn’t legalizing prostitution worsen that?

    Why can’t an alternative option for work be offered to sex workers instead? Legalizing prostitution is not attacking the core of the problem which is that sex workers usually have no other economic options.

    Legalizing prostitution will lead to increases in prostitution and buyers. Of course. Wouldn’t this also increase the rates of sexual assault and rape too? I sincerely believe that buyers see prostitutes as nothing more than commodities that could be brought. As the idea of women being sex objects has been so greatly ingrained in society’s soul, legalizing prostitution may make it safer for sexual workers temporarily when they deal with buyers but it’s not bulletproof. Buyers are not going to change their attitude after prostitution is legalized.

    This is list of my analysis of the situation and I do not mean to offend anyone (except people who exploit sex workers and pay them for sex). If these buyers really did care about the well being of sex workers they would help them find a better employment instead of just caring about catering to their own sexual desires. I’m glad that buyers of prostitutes are being looked down upon more negatively today but prostitutes still bear the brunt of societal shame when they do not deserve it.

    What is your take on the article, vyechera?

  11. Hi WOC-

    I think you’re asking all the right questions. I tend to think, without holding myself out as having any special expertise, that the systems of prostitution and pornography in current western society cannot be engaged in, in any healthy way, by anybody.

    As to what would happen in a liberated society, I don’t know. The article about the Canadian study makes the study seem incomplete and just plain odd in interviewing six times more johns than prostituted people, the sex of the prostituted people isn’t specified, pimps are asked their opinions, it seems, and undocumented people and children weren’t included,

    I’d have to go to the study itself before I could respond better, because the article is full of conclusions, not source data. I’d have to know if the opinions of all the other people surveyed, like cops, johns, pimps, and partners, were given the same weight as the far fewer opinions of the prostituted people. I don’t understand that at all. Why ask a john? The article is confusing and I can’t get much from it but more questions. Wish I had time to study the study, but can’t do that now.

  12. “I take Emma’s speech as an illustration that the backlash has been so successful, we are back to square one in terms of public perception.”


    That article about the prostitution study is all kinds of fucked up. They interviewed mostly white, college-educated people, so basically they interviewed the most privileged out of all prostituted women. If they had interviewed Aboriginal women they would have gotten a very different answer.

    The whole thing is indistinguishable from the sex trade lobby.

  13. I’m waxing nostalgic and feeling a little light-hearted this a.m. Since this is an open thread, I though this might be a good place to nominate the following song by The Cycle Sluts from Hell as a possible Anti-MRA Anthem.

    I think any version of this song should include the choreography you see near the end at about the last round of the chorus. This was a rare all-women heavy metal group (with a strong punk influence from NYC back in the 1990s). I love their stage wear – I used to dress a lot like this! Ah! Those were the days! There’s the nostalgic part.

    Here it is: By The Balls

  14. Reposting a comment by a woman named Erin Graham regarding the above-mentioned study and Bill C-36:

    “Here’s the thing, Abolitionists did not dismiss the decision of our highest courts — neither on baseless nor petulant grounds (“baseless grounds” is an oxymoron, no?). At the time, and still now, we share the view that prostituted persons, or those who sell sex, should never be criminalized. Certainly the laws, and especially the enforcement of those laws, were problematic and increased the harms of prostitution to those engaged in it. But decriminalizing the buyers, traffickers, pimps and profiteers will not decrease those harms. This recent study is not the first, “most substantial” or the only large scale research on prostitution in Canada, though it may represent the views of more pimps, punters and profiteers than previous studies. Given this proportionately greater representation of those who profit from prostitution in this study, it is no surprise that the evidence it presents seems to show that the prostitution industry is beneficial to most study participants.
    Had the researchers sought women who have left prostitution and/or assisted others to leave/escape prostitution, there is no doubt that the results would have been much different. Most women formerly engaged in some aspect of the sex industry have no reason to downplay the harms they experienced (as do women who are still engaged in prostitution), though it is often many years before they can talk about these experiences. Often, these women will not discuss their involvement in prostitution, much like veterans of war who cannot or will not talk about those traumatic and devastating experiences.
    They will, however, talk about it with others with similar histories, and they’ll talk about it, eventually, with anti-violence workers, transition house workers, advocates, and other women in “front-line” work. There is nothing about prostitution, (according to the hundreds of women I have talked to, worked with, beside and on behalf of), that is beneficial for women. Nothing. It is deeply grounded in women’s inequality, and is a fundamentally racialized and classed harmful cultural practice which reinforces male power and entitlement.”

  15. I have learned a lot from the blog of an exited survivor of prostitution, “R Mott”. Her posts are full of insight and she speaks from experience. She is also a poetic writer who helps us feel the pain of the prostituted. Her most recent post is about the myth of the Happy Hooker.

  16. So I just unfriended a dude on Facebook for talking about watching porn. However, several other female friends of his reacted positively.

  17. This is crazy. Not only has Sam pepper sexually assaulted women in his recent video, he’s also a rapist. I just got finished watching the woman’s video on the matter. If anyone knows how to share her YouTube video it would be much appreciated.


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