AVFM On C36

Jack Barnes shows just how ignorant he is by criticizing C36 and it’s basic premise. I’ll go through his silly rant and correct him and AVFM.

According to feminists, prostitution is something that men do to oppress women. Feminists believe that women cannot choose to engage in prostitution because the patriarchy forces them into selling their bodies for money. Basically, feminists view prostitution and sex slaves as the same thing.

It’s not just according to feminists you numbskull. It’s according to women who were sex trafficked into legal brothels all over Canada and the world. Women cannot choose if the only avenue they have is selling their bodies. That’s not a choice. That’s economic force. Forcing women to sexually please men for money is slavery. Not so difficult to grasp.

Sex slavery and sex trafficking are part of the larger problem of human trafficking. We like to think that we live in a society that is free from slavery. To use this situation to advance an ideology is unthinkable to most people.

Typical mansplain. Slavery has existed forever so nothing should be done about it. What an argument.

Both men and women engage in prostitution on both sides of the equation.

Nobody denies that but women are the majority of prostituted women and men are the majority of the buyers.

See, according to feminists, prostitution is a form of “male” violence. Violence has a gender? That’s a topic for another day.

This is where the typical MRA inability to analyze shows its ugly head. Knowing that the majority of buyers are male and knowing what they do to prostituted women is certainly male violence against women. In an unequal world where men hold more socioeconomic power it forces women in a subjugated position. The only way women can make enough money to feed their kids and their families is to sell sex to men. Men are the powerful in this relationship and they enact violence on women’s mind and body. This is male violence against women.

Let’s set aside for a moment the fact that many women who become prostitutes have options and often willingly chose prostitution.

Some do but many do not. Do we sacrifice a certain marginalized set of women for a few who may choose it? Do we think it’s ok as a society to legitimize an act that is inherently male violence against women? Do we allow people to sell organs, limbs? No.

Okay, then shouldn’t we be giving them choices? Shouldn’t feminists be working to set up programs to help these women get education and/or work placement so that they will have more options for employment? And shouldn’t this be accompanied by programs for women who use prostitution to feed their drug addictions? But that’s not what feminists are doing.

Yes feminists are doing that but because you’re so incredibly ignorant you didn’t watch the House or Senate talk to these NGO’s who do precisely this. It doesn’t solve the main problem where men pay money to abuse women sexually.

Then Jack tries to make this ridiculous claim that because some women are sex trafficked by women it somehow shows that this isn’t patriarchal. Or something. It’s incredibly dumb.

Who’s safer: a woman who is working in a brothel with bouncers and security guards or a woman who has to do her business under the cover of darkness and in hiding? Brothels are like strip clubs; they have security to protect their employees from anyone who gets out of line. What if the owner of the brothel is abusive? We already have laws against abusive employers, and since everything is out in the open, reporting him or her is a lot easier and is legal.

You are incredibly dumb. Women are sex trafficked through legal brothels and you admitted a paragraph earlier that some madam sold children. It’s about money, not safety. Brothels are not strip clubs. I can’t believe I have to tell you that. Brothels don’t solve the problem of marginalized aborginal women working in darkness. If we don’t recognize that prostitution allows marginalized women to be beaten, raped, and killed by johns’ and pimps we will never solve the problem which is male violence against women. You are saying that it’s ok that some women will endure those problems instead of saying that ALL women deserve human rights not to be beaten, raped, tortured and murdered because a few women want ‘security’ in a brothel which many times doesn’t actually exist.

They have to hide to do their business and can’t go to the cops, not even if the selling of sex is legal. If a prostitute turns in one of her Johns, word will get around and her clients will disappear.

We don’t want women to be relegated to the violence of johns and pimps and yes if selling is decriminalized they can go to the cops without being charged. The whole point is to get rid of the demand. I’m willing to bet you haven’t studied the relationship between demand and supply in relation to prostitution. Here’s an interview with a German expert on trafficking. He’ll tell you that prostitution and sex trafficking go hand in hand. This is why eliminating prostitution will eliminate this male violence against women.

If a woman in a brothel gets one of her clients thrown out or arrested for being violent or abusive, the brothel will still be able to attract clients like nothing ever happened. Why? Because the guy who got arrested wasn’t arrested for buying sex but for being an asshole.

No dumbass. He’ll go cruise the street and find a desperate woman who he can enact that violence upon.

Brothels also offer better health and safety for both sides. In the U.S., condoms are mandatory, the Johns are examined for physical signs of STDs, and the workers are regularly tested. You can’t get much safer than that.

Citation please? Oh and STD testing in brothels doesn’t work well because you can spread infections during the window of testing. Johns are examined by the prostitute by just looking at his genitals. He wasn’t screened by a health professional. You can get safer than that. No man gets to buy sex and spread disease.

Back into the shadows and the cheap motels the women will go, and more than a few of them will be assaulted, contract diseases, and some will end up dead.

They’re already there because of the demand. Prostitution has been legal in Canada for a long time. The diseases come from the Johns. Many have already ended up dead. No more prostitution. No more prostitution deaths by serial killers. No more raping and beating of women by johns. It’s really simple but you seem so dull.

We have seen that feminist ideas about prostitution are not based in reality.

Except they are and there are plenty of dead, raped, beaten and tortured women to prove it.

These feminists hate men to the point that they are working to pass legislation that would throw other women under the bus just to discriminate against men.

Right there says a lot. Men only care about their erections or that this is manhating. It makes you cry that you can’t buy women because your poor manfeelz. Women will always be thrown under the bus in legalization you doofus that’s why outlawing it completely, well it completely works.

Here are some of the comments by men who would like it that women’s bodies are for sale. Let’s examine how violent they are.

My body, my choice! Nothing wrong with being a slut, don’t slutshame!~Sanguifier

This comment really displayed to me what men think when they buy a woman’s services. They really frame it as if they bought her complete consent.

It’s just that they want the option to be able to withdraw consent at any time of their choosing, perhaps decades later, so they would not want men to have the option of having sex with women whose consent is guaranteed. Prostitution could well be the last “safe sex” for men, and that is the thorn on their sides that needs to be eliminated.~Seele

Feminists can give all the bullshit excuses they want for why the are against legalizing prostitution , but the REAL reason they are against it is b/c if legalized, there will be less sexual assault/violence/rape~John Smith

In usual fashion, feminists have conflated human trafficking with prostitution to make the issue something other than what it really is. The heart of the matter is that feminists resent men’s sexuality, especially in areas where they believe men to have more options than women do.~Malcolm H Johnston

Human trafficking for sexual purposes is absolutely miniscule in developed countries, mostly half males, and what there is of it would be immediately curtailed by legalising prostitution as customers themselves would report suspicious activity to the police. Or just keep a registry of sex workers and check their credentials online on your phone.

Simples.~Dagda Mor

Dagda Mor is an idiot.

“Women work as.prostitutes because society gives them no other choice!” Wow, I thought my mother was a nurse, but apparently that’s not possible.~NotoriousPAT

Modern day prostitutes rarely have pimps and research has shown that when they do, it is often a relationship controlled by the prostitute, one that they can walk away from quite easily. The pimp is usually little more than a driver. Prostitutes (other than ones who do it to feed drug habits) are the quintessential strong women. They get to travel, earn more than high level executives, can save money, not go into debt for an education and quickly save enough to move into other lucrative areas that an average worker could never do.~NunyaBidness

Then why aren’t men all over the world outnumbering women in prostitution?

Here’s an MRA commenting on feminism. It’s deliciously ironic, especially since that’s exactly what we’re doing with prostitution.

They resist any and all attempts to call out the way things work or the imbalances and injustices in society, and refuse to acknowledge their privileged status and their actions and attitudes responsible for arresting social progress.~G. Quan

Study of child sex workers in NY found only 14% had a pimp. 14 month study of sex workers in Atlantic City finds only 5% had a pimp. Yes, it’s evil men exploiting the poor women all the way.~WordsIView

He doesn’t know he made an argument for abolishing prostitution.

I hope this make the price go down.~RazedbyWolvz

Only concerned with his dick and how cheap it’ll be to abuse women.

Basically ANYTHING that gives hetero men pleasure is exploitation to feminists.~evilwhitemaleempire

This bill will sure as hell benefit Nevada’s economy.~David Sutton

Yes, the reason why it will is because men, the demand, will flock anywhere where they can buy and abuse women and due to women’s second class status in socioeconomic terms there will always be women around to buy to rape, beat, torture, and murder.

That’s why prostitution is male violence against women.

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41 thoughts on “AVFM On C36

  1. Hi, I should admit here that I have tried for many years to avoid the horror issue of “pornstitution” – the profitable industries that traffic in women’s bodies. I hoped I wouldn’t have to learn more, see more, feel more by researching these important sources of womens’ oppression. I told myself that it would harm my health, and chose my health over the health of the immeasurable number of women who have been forced into one or the other. For that I’m ashamed as I believe radfems have to try very hard to resist every ugly corner of the patriarchy no matter the personal cost.

    I admire how this posting just goes at it, just takes this colossal set of tortures of women and straightforwardly rejects this particular pornstitution promoter.

    I thought of ways of approaching this – point out that this guy is a trucker and is just spouting one trucker’s wishful thinking – cite a million scholarly studies proving without a shadow of doubt that prostitution hurts already-victimized women – go through each depraved argument made by this fool and slice and dice him.

    But I won’t. He’s one of billions. This is what makes his life worth living, encouraging making women into things available to abuse, because it makes him feel like a big man with people he can feel superior to. It is one of the oldest roots of the patriarchy that has kept women in subhuman status for millennia. He has been born and raised to think the way he does. He will never understand what he is saying and he will never change.

    All that can change is for women to abandon men.

    • V,

      Andrea Dworkin wrote “Pornography happens to women.” I have a personal story about two agencies trying very hard to get me involved in pornography. I saw a friend succumb to their coercion, mind games and lies. And, they tried to do it to me, too – very elaborately, at one point. They even assigned a woman in porn (I didn’t know she was) to be my “friend” and try to get me in.

      I think prostitution “happens to women,” too, because men what to prostitute us. Johns are everywhere. I was assaulted for money. Paid, then assaulted and I had no choice but to be assaulted by the johns.

      Unfortunately, I’m not surprised that you have to tell men that strip clubs aren’t brothels or that women, in general, are not whores – but, apparently you do have to tell them that. Although, you can be sure none of them are listening to you. All they hear is a whore making noise.

      Johns are literally everywhere now. It’s part of the backlash and the proliferation of especially violent porn because I am a retired veteran of the strip clubs – I had a career that spanned over 20 years. So, I know that the men weren’t this bad before – they were a little less sick and quite a lot less violent. Now, they’re all fucking johns.

      Until men stop thinking of women as whores, until they stop commodifying women’s bodies and thinking of women as something that can be bargained for in some way, prostitution and other violence against women is going to continue.

      The only way to end it is to get as far away from men as possible because they talk all nice – oh, they’re you’re friends, you can trust them – but, they are all johns at heart. But, they are all the authors of this violence against us. The only way they could possible help us is to go away and leave us alone.

      • V,

        Sorry, it’s the middle of the night and I just woke up. I re-read my comment and some somethings that don’t entirely make sense. What I’m trying to say at one point is that because I am a retired veteran of the clubs with a career spanning over 20 years, I saw the men change.

        We now have men more openly being johns.

        The belief that they can or should be able to purchase women is very strong among men.

      • Your argument ended with “Andrea Dworkin wrote”. Look, I understand you’re ex-cog and because of it probably suffering from
        DID, and PTSD, but there’s still hope, and not all men are bad.

        >I’m lonely and dumb. I’m a dumb male. I can’t help myself. I should really turn gay. That’s the only way I’ll have sex ever. Women don’t want me. I’m immature and can’t carry on a normal conversation because I play video games all day and watch porn. I’m a loser. Someone PLEASE PAY ATTENTION TO ME! I NEED SOME ATTENTION. When I don’t get attention I wet my BED! DAMN YOU WOMEN! I’m GOING TO WET MY BED TONIGHT IF YOU DON”T PAY ATTENTION TO ME!

        • Hahahaha! You’re a mentally ill, bitter narcissist, who refuses to grow so instead became an irrelevant feminist who obsesses over MRAs. Get a life, loser.

          >I love abusing women because I need attention and I have no life so I make endless comments on feminist blogs and then project all my failings onto women.

    • But, one more thing before I go back to be for the night: It is very difficult to go into a job situation every night knowing you are probably going to be assaulted. You might be injured by a man just because he feels like it and nobody is going to say anything about it except, “What did you expect?” That’s a genuine quote, by the way: “What did you expect?”

      Well, I expected to be able to go to my job and not have to deal with johns… that’s what I expected. But, apparently that’s asking too much these days.

      Until there are no more johns and no more whappers or fappers (whatever the menz call what the do to porn over at Men’s Rights Reddit group) and no more rapists and no more men running a protection racket and no more men who believe they have the right to own other people, the violence against us will go on and 1/2 the population or more will be fine with it. They’re the ones doing it. I don’t think we can expect their assistance in stopping them from doing it.

  2. I’m thinking somewhat of Radical Wind’s posting this week on Utopia (http://witchwind.wordpress.com/2014/10/07/utopia-what-would-a-womens-society-look-like/). She has thought through a scenario of a world in which women are no longer subject to male coercion and violence.

    I’m more interested in this current world and what can be done now. Meg Whitman, Hillary Clinton, Angelina Jolie, Angela Merkel, Christy Walton (heir to $25 billion from her father’s depredations), and many many more women with surpluses they have earned to a great extent from other women’s backs, could end prostitution, I think. Form an organization, institute a global trust, bring all women who decide to leave prostitution into a safe, stable life, with all kinds of resources to make it so.

    At least offer an alternative. Would prostituted women jump at such an offer? I think they would. Do extremely wealthy women have a special responsibility here? I think so. Should women begin to do everything we do apart without regard to male pornstitution attitudes? I think so. I don’t think women can move into the patriarchy with libfem laws, make the first big bucks women have ever made with various capitalistic forays, and then sit on their wealth. It’s too early.

    Let’s take responsibility for our sisters and get them out of the clutches of the johns. I think we’re that far along, at least a few of us. We have to remember, no matter what kind of surplus we have accumulated in capitalistic society, that we are firstly women, members of an oppressed class, and our fortunes are ill-begotten collaborations.

    I am tired of talking about mens’ responsibilites here, as they will never step up to the plate. It is no use to discuss why they do what they do, why they won’t ever change, why the whole concept of “Man” is predicated on the concept “Dominator of Woman”.

    I think we should take the legal gains brought to us by the hard work of 100 years by lib fems, We should pool our surplus and put a stop to prostitution.

    As for porn, let’s get real women out of the business. Men are perfectly happy with anime, cartoons, balloons, fleshlights, rubber dolls, and other virtual women. leave them to it as that will never stop.

    • No, men are not happy with cartoons, and women get into porn for far more than financial reasons. Most of them enter the business for male attention, or because they like getting fucked. Get a clue.

      >I’m not happy with cartoons because well, that’s all I can get near. The monitor in front of me is all I see of women. No woman will touch me. I’m so alone. I can’t help myself. I need to be able to buy women because otherwise I won’t ever have sex. Please someone pay attention to me. I need attention! I’m so pathetic and my dick is barely visible.

      • I see, making a rational
        argument that the only way to remove the violence associated with prostitution is to legalize it means I only pay for sex and addicted to porn. You’re an idiot, and if you weren’t you wouldn’t be s rad fem.

        >If women aren’t being sold to me legally I’ll beat them. I have no argument. I’ve read no research but I’m a male and so I puff up my chest and give grand edicts about nothing except that I should be able to buy and abuse women.

  3. What’s really idiotic is that feminists think you can stop the demand for prostitutes. Just like with drugs, the only solution is legalization which will take most of the criminality out of the industry.

    >what’s really idiotic is that I’m a dude that wants to buy poor native women because I can’t have mutual sexual pleasure without money. I can’t please a woman. I’m dumb in bed. I’ve learned everything through porn and my brain is mush now. I want to buy women because poor women are ripe for the hunt because I don’t give a shit about women. I’m a misogynist who believes that some women should be slaves and sex trafficked.

    I’m really dull.

    • hahahaha! this is how you respond to a completely rational
      argument? Pathetic. ive never paid for sex, but I’m smart enough to know you will never end a demand for whores.

      I could even get your dyke ass off in about five minutes. I might be inadequate in many arenas, but in bed is definitely not one of them.

      >I think I’m sexually great but in reality I have a small dick and inhabit the internet where I search for feminist blogs to show all the women there how repulsively stupid I am. I don’t think much, well, it’s because I’m a man. I also use sexual violence in my conversations because I couldn’t satisfy women at all in my life. In fact, I’ve never been with a woman but I like to talk like i have. In reality I’m porn addicted and dumb. Yep, I’m a dumb male.

    • I guarantee I can eat pussy better than any o e of your girlfriends, you silly cunt. Face facts: a demand for whores will never end. The best way to protect women from the violence associated with prostitution is through legalization. You want either a Victorian mentality, or more likely, for men to be wired differently than what they are. You can’t win. In the end you’re fucked.

      > I’m an angry man that sits in front of computer screens all day. I’m not skilled in anything. I’m a pathetic small man. No, I really am. I just like to think I’m cool but in reality I’m just sexually frustrated and deranged. I like to pretend women will like me but women won’t allow me to get within 100 yards of them.

  4. I’ve been trying to think through all this and thought it might be fun to put it all in an imaginary interview with the New York Times:

    Q: Rape, Porn, Prostitution, Marriage. What’s the common effect of these institutional pillars of culture?

    A: Impeding or preventing women’s power to resist undesired PIV/perverted sex.

    Q: Cui bono from the erection of these pillars?

    A: Men

    Q: Do women consent to these pillars?

    A: No, they are all imposed from ancient times and reinforced for each new generation of women in different ways. Women are born into a society in which the pillars are normalized parts of the background.

    Q: What are some of the ways the pillars hold up the patriarchal roof?

    A: Keep women economically dependent, socialize women into non-resistance, use social stigma to attack resisters, keep women out of public settings using violence, intimidation, “teasing”, employment discrimination, and social disapproval, assign each woman a male controller to keep women from aggregating, invent religions which all instruct women they are the servant sex, discourage lesbianism, foster divisiveness among women, encourage denial that there are even pillars…

    Q: Do the pillars vary in size over time as well as in physical prominence?

    A: Yes. Western countries currently have a sky-high Porn Pillar, for example, which is leading men to pressure women to perform unhealthy sexual activity. In the past, The Porn and Prostitution Pillars were not as prominent as the Marriage Pillar.

    Q: Do men have any reasons to detumesce the pillars?

    A: Damn if I can think of any.

    Q: Do women have legitimate reasons to control their own bodies, including resisting undesired PIV sex?

    A: That is a moral/normative question. Do cows have legitimate reasons not to choose to be our food source? Cows are likely to answer yes, even after weighing in the benefits to people. It can be shown that PIV sex is a risk to a woman’s health and well-being.

    But the better women’s answer is that it is a moral good and human right that human beings should be able to choose what will penetrate their bodies. Men certainly consider themselves as having that right, so it should morally be extended to women (intra-male war is a violation of human rights). Coerced penetration should be considered a moral evil in all circumstances. Women cannot seriously be called citizens or even human beings if they do not have this right.

    A male response is that fewer children will be born, abortion is a moral evil that is a consequence, undesirable men will go berserk and kill people, frank sexual violence against women will increase, and the moral good of women’s control over our own bodies does not outweigh the negative impact on the well-being of men.

    Q: Is it possible that, if the coercive pillars detumesced, women would freely accept the degree and kind of PIV sexual coercion we experience now?

    A: Men don’t think we would. Women don’t know as we have never experienced that state of freedom. Most radfems agree with men.

    Q: Is a compromise possible in which women control their own bodies without coercion, social pressure, or intimidation from men, but men have all the sex they had when they still had pillars?

    A: Men don’t think so. Women don’t know as we have, again, never experienced that state of freedom. Most Radfems agree with men.

    Q: What is the ultimate goal of Liberal Feminism?

    A: To re-brand and reform the pillars, binding up the cracks and shining them up good, by treating men and women as equal under the law. In western countries, liberal feminism has been successful in this endeavor. In undeveloped countries, some legal change is occurring in some places.

    Q: Is equalizing the laws and judicial and law enforcement going to free women from social stigma, coercion, conditioning, and use of violence and intimidation?

    A: The Radfem answer is, great start but no way.

    Q: What is the ultimate goal of most Radfems?

    A: Remove all impediments to women controlling their own bodies. Start with the pillars. Separate if that doesn’t work. Civilization must be radically changed to save the earth, not just women.

    Q: What do most men think of the Liberal Feminist goals?

    A: Laws can be changed when women stop looking.

    Q: What do most men think of Radfem goals?

    A: Removing the pillars and freeing women’s bodies from male control demonizes male sexuality, destroys civilization, leaves women prey to savage inherently violent men, leaves women without male support when children are young, denies women their natural need to serve and be dependent, and denies men their natural need to access women, the last being the main thing.

    Q: What do most Radfems think of Radfem Goals?

    Kidding!

        • This is a very good speech. I think it’s important that she mentions that this doesn’t just happen to “other” women. She came from a white, affluent background.

          I’ve been trying to think about why a lot of liberals don’t want to talk about certain victims. They don’t mind talking about women who are part of marginalized groups in other ways, but when they are confronted with the fact that women who don’t fit their ideal of victimhood – “Barbie,” and “blonde slut” and “bimbo” (which are words I see littering liberal comment sections to describe women who don’t fit their paradigm of victimhood) – are often victims of childhood abuse, and can just as easily become prostituted and trafficked as any other women, and also have no way out but an early grave – the libs go into denial mode and start pointing their fingers at other women who “have it worse” somehow.

          But, I think they don’t want to deal with that because it’s a scary thought, especially for liberals who like to have someone to look down their noses at. (Also, the white liberal men don’t want to talk about it because it is THEY who are most implicated in perpetrating these crimes against us.) They like to feel superior and think that they are somehow apart from that group of people over there to whom certain horrible things happen (whatever it is – trafficking, being murdered or raped by the cops, etc.). That’s why they get so angry when they’re confronted with the truth that these things happen to white, affluent women just like they do to non-white, poor women. No women get a reprieve. No women are privileged in the patriarchal system. The terror in that is that, “OMG, this could happen to me!” and this is why they are so resistant. It’s their terror, if they’re women, and their guilt, if they’re men.

    • I think one of the most coercive elements is this one
      ‘assign each woman a male controller to keep women from aggregating’

      If women could break free of that imagine how many liberal feminists would come here and start engaging on how to ‘nuke it from orbit’?

      • I have to give some more thought to why that isn’t happening, but at this moment, I think it’s stone cold fear. Women are made to feel so vulnerable if they don’t have a male friend, protector, boyfriend or husband person.

        Just since this most recent ordeal of mine, I’ve had people say things like, “Don’t you have a brother or a friend who could come and…” – do what? I don’t know. But, the idea is that the presence of a man somehow keeps you safe. Like the penis is some sort of talisman that a woman needs to ward off male violence.

        Recently, I spoke with another of my neighbors – the ones who found the unconscious woman on their porch after she was beaten by her boyfriend. They don’t have a gun in the house – which is hard to believe, really, but I don’t think they’re originally from here. The reason they don’t have a gun is that she is afraid of them. Lots of liberals are afraid of guns, it seems. But, the fact is that a woman is far safer keeping an arsenal in her house than she is having a man there. It’s the man who – not the gun – that is going to rape you or just go ballistic one night and try to kill you (been there and done that a couple of times, personally) – and men don’t need guns to rape or kill women. The have dicks and big, strong hands.

        Maybe if more women had their own space and their own means of self-defense – which they were allowed to actually use in their defense, by law (this is important!) – then, they wouldn’t feel the need to possess and stroke the penis talisman.

        Once you get rid of the fear, it’s funny how the desire for male company wanes away pretty quickly – that was how it was in my case, at least.

        Women need to understand that the cavalry isn’t coming. And, even if it were to come, it would be to rape and kill us for their amusement, not defend us.

          • Except that that men are usually lousy at protecting women – even when they see us as their personal property.

            They’re more like talismans. They do ward off some violence from other men, especially if they are big men who appear threatening. But, then they’ll turn on you unexpectedly, too, like a rabid dog.

            The penis talisman is sort of like the Monkey’s Paw. There’s always a catch and the devil gets his due in the end.

  5. Yeah, you’re doing wonderful! you’re a bitter, crippled(mentally and physically)45 year old, wannabe dyke hag who can’t get over a minor incident from her childhood and so hates the world. Grow the fuck up, you useless misandrist, cunt, and get a life!
    >I’m so utterly useless that I’ve left 10 comments here because I need a woman to abuse. I’m a rapist and I want to pay women so I can rape them. I love projecting my failed life onto women so I can have an excuse to be violent. I’m a violent small penised little boy who has nothing better to do.

    • A toothless, shriveled up welfare parasite(I’ve seen you on YouTube psychogirl and no man wants you. you can claim your rejection of men is political but it’s nonsense. you’re really just a hag)is telling me I’m projecting my failed life on women? lol! and what are you doing? not projecting all your failures, and the fact that you’re living off the taxpayers on men? Oh, right, you’re a victim! lol! even though you’re from the prosperous west. fact is you’re just a loser who can’t make anything of herself, and is mentally ill. you stereotype a lot as well. Now I’m suddenly a rapist who only pays women for sex even though in reality I’ve never been with a pro ,and for a number of reasons because I think C36 is wrongheaded rad fem social engineering which won’t change anything. Grow up already you useless sow.
      >I’m a rapist and now I’ve left over 13 comments! I’m so proud of myself and how I abuse women. I want women to be for sale so I can rent a poor aboriginal woman and beat her and use her because I know she needs the money and I can do whatever I want. Oh and I’m really mad at the owner of this blog because I’m a sociopath and have the need to abuse her because, well, I’m dickless and immature.

  6. @HMQ, WOOW, as usual your comments add a lot of depth to my thinking. Thank you!

    Random thoughts:

    Rebecca Mott is a treasure.

    “Austin”‘s error from the get-go is found in his statement: “The best way to protect women from the violence associated with prostitution is through legalization.”

    The fault lies in his use of the word “violence”. Coerced PIV sex is “violence” per se. “Coerced” means the consent is not freely given, because no other alternative is available. It is an especially egregious kind of coercion when the coercer is part of the class that has systematically deprived the prostituted person of any alternatives.

    Prostitution is an institution of legitimized battery on a vulnerable class of people.
    It meets the common law definiton of battery in every respect: http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/battery

    The corollary kinds of violence involved, including aggravated kinds of bodily harm, slavery, robbery, torture, and other inherent aspects of an institution based connected to the initial battery may be better regulated, and the pillar will look a little shinier. But the inherent violence of the coerced act isn’t touched. It is in fact glossed over, erased, minimized, and forgotten as the reformers move on to their next shine job. That is the radfem position as I understand it.

    But “Austin” has already been waylaid by his own inability to discuss anything with a woman without personalizing, belching forth menacing sexual fantasies, and calling the woman a cunt, that word which is the final argument of men to remind women that they are nothing but bodies. He does it reflexively. He is not here to discuss anything, he is here to disrupt because he is threatened by women talking together and feels a need to put a stop to it. It is as if, after this little comment, I reflexively called him that term which reminds men that they too have a body part associated with them: the asshole.

  7. I have learned a lot about the global institution of prostitution in its current form from reading the link below. It is a transcript and report of a conference on sex trafficking of the International Human Rights Law Institute, sponsored by DePaul University School of Law which I believe took place in 2003. After laying out the extraordinary, catastrophic ongoing situation, the report’s conclusion is an example of where libfems and radfems differ. A braver conclusion was apparently not politically or psychologically possible. The real conclusion anyone who reads this report and follows the logic must make is that prostitution is a form of legalized ongoing battery, and no palliative measures are adequate, only abolition.

    http://www.law.depaul.edu/centers_institutes/ihrli/downloads/demand_dynamics.pdf

  8. So, even if she CHOSE to sell her body for money she was still “forced” into it? Really? She couldn’t wait tables, work retail, etc. etc. etc? And the feminist solution to prostitution is to make women a protected class who can sell their bodies willingly, and escape the consequences of the law for doing it, but the men who buy them can’t? How is that even legal? Yeah, like lots of women aren’t going to take advantage of that situation either through blackmail, and a quick way to turn a buck. Only feminists could come up with something so stupid, insane, and totalitarian.> I do like it that women are for sale though. I like to think that it’s all a choice because I’m a dumb male who can’t really be with a woman on equal terms. I can’t imagine why anyone would take women’s bodies off the capitalist market. I think it’s fine that native women have no choices. It’s great for all us men that she’s impoverished so we can buy her for 10 bucks and abuse her mercilessly. That’s totes not racism or nothin.

  9. Ugly, foul mouthed, entitled, racist. You are revolting in just about every way. It’s odd too, that a woman who hates men embodies all the worst aspects of men. Go figure? >I love calling women who think native women aren’t born to take dick for 10 bucks a day racists. See how I switch this around and call you a racist? My projection is second to none.

  10. Racist, entitled, revolting, loser narcissist. Could you be any uglier, too? >I think native women are on this planet to sell their bodies to me. I’m not a racist colonialist bastard tho, you ARE! Nyah nyah nyah nyah nyah!

  11. When I read about personal experiences of prostitution on Mott’s blog and other places like http://survivingprostitutionandaddiction.blogspot.com/, I’m always remembering that a few decades ago these writers had nowhere to publish. No one heard them when they screamed. Feminism has given some women some ability to speak, an incredible accomplishment considering the iron door of silence shut against the scream of women for the whole written past of humanity.

  12. I could have written a large part of the post at this link, but I didn’t:

    http://www.oneangrygirl.net/these_women.htm

    The author at the above link describes the men very accurately as parasites.

    I started working in the clubs at 19 because I couldn’t make ends meet at my office job (I had a “good” job, but it was as a secretary and back then there were about 100 people in my building and only 2 women who are not in support positions of some kind. Nobody could live on my salary – at least, not alone and clearly that was the point. Most of the people were engineers and we had one woman, one black man, one Hispanic man and everyone else was white and male.) and I desperately wanted to go to attend college. I had the false hope that if I had a degree, I’d be treated with some kind of respect.

    More than 20 years and a degree later and I was still working in the clubs (I knew other multi-linguil women, some with Master’s degrees, still working in the clubs), but by then it wasn’t very safe anymore. There had always been assault and stalking, with the most dangerous stalkers being the cops, themselves. But, we never had johns and prostitution. It was never tolerated. I remember a club that regularly kicked out off-duty cops for propositioning the dancers. When we were propositioned, we had to hand the man a business card that said something like, “I cannot continue this illegal conversation…,” and if he persisted, he would be forcibly thrown out.

    I’m not sure when it started, because I think it happened in various places around the country at different times. And, I discovered years later that legislation to eliminate the dancers put in place in a variety of cities around the U.S. had the effect of getting rid of the dancers, all right, but not the clubs. Then, when they did sweeps for street walkers, the story goes that they ended up in the clubs because the owners had no one else to hire. (They got rid of the dancers very often by assuming that we were prostitutes. There are clubs that have huge amounts of false arrests for prostitution made by the city. When the dancers are constantly harassed and threatened by the cops and the city, they just have to pack up and move to somewhere that they aren’t being harassed.) The first time, back in the mid- to late-’90s when a girl took money from a guy at a club for a blowjob, the other dancers beat her up! Now, 15 years and more later, the clubs are flooded with johns and nothing but johns in many places and the dancers are mostly gone, except for the unsuspecting victims who come in to work from out of town and find out toolate what’s going on. It’s something I never thought I would see as long as I lived.

    If, as the troll suggested, prostitution were to become either legalized or decriminalized, you’d have more johns in more places and even less of an opportunity to be safe. In fact, there would be no safe haven whatsoever from the johns.

    All men are johns, at least, at heart.

    Plus, there has been a major attitude shift in favor of johns, at least, in the U.S. Thank you, liberals.

    And, Dear Gentlemen, who go to night clubs to ogle and assault women – or to outright purchase sex – you fellas need to realize that behind those smiles and all that apparent consent are women who fear and loathe you, who while they’re smiling at you are fantasizing about dividing your head from top to bottom with a meat cleaver. This is because you cannot treat other human beings this way and expect anything else. Disguise your cruelty whoever you wish, it’s still cruelty to another human being – whether you think we’re human or not. Just because a person was born with a vagina doesn’t mean she’s a circus animal.

    • You sure can write. I loved the last part about the meat cleaver. It’s true too. I know when I was prostituted I fucking HATED every guy that looked at me and bought me. I dreaded the entire encounter. I had one guy who had to listen to Pink Floyd’s Dark Side of The Moon while he got off. He’d literally ask me to start the CD and leave just after the album was over. He looked like a cop too. He sold BC Bud (the best bud in the world imho) and knew a ton of cops but I don’t think he was a cop.

      My girlfriend was jealous he was one of my johns b/c she thought he was gorgeous. I suppose if he wasn’t buying me I might’ve considered him somewhat attractive but as you say WOtW I wanted to split his head open. I couldn’t stand him. He came around in the middle of the day, which I hated too.

  13. Regarding the troll comment: “Really? She couldn’t wait tables, work retail, etc. etc. etc?”

    Here’s a why:

    When I was a teen I had a mall job doing retail where we suffered appalling treatment from the owner, were underpaid, had or pay docked, were lectured by said pig. I was sexually assaulted at this boutique by men claiming to be shopping for their wives or girlfriends. I had notes on my car from a “secret admirer” and I was harassed by a member of mall security.

    Every job I went to I experienced the same kind of thing – disgusting comments, inappropriate and illegal questions from the employers, escaping 4 potential gang rapists outside my office one day at one of my jobs, being kissed and literally chased around a desk.

    Ironically, I was more often treated with respect at the strip clubs – and this was the case until they brought in table dancing and then lap dancing. Working on stage was not bad, the pay was liveable and the biggest problem I was dealing with men outside of work because of the constant onslaught of harassment. Want to get a bite to eat at a restaurant before you put in a full nights work? Prepare for some jerk to be standing over your table trying to get your phone number while you’re trying to eat. Watching the rear view mirror constantly because you can be followed and not just from your workplace, but from the grocery store or the pizza parlor.

    Every man who treats girls and women like dirt is a groomer for the sex industry in one way or another.

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