From One Manospherian to Another: Elam is an Opportunist For Cash, Clicks and Attention

Elam wants cash and clicks. I knew it.

Long story short, Elam is trying to gain a demographic of the Manosphere called MGTOW but he’s not doing it for ideological reasons but well, for lining his pockets. The MGTOW guys know this.

Sandman knows it. Sandman is a moderately popular Youtuber who makes MGTOW videos and he just called Elam out.

Sandman also thinks Elam wants to get rid of the angrier men within AVFM to cleanse his image. . I know, I know. How does it get any worse than MRA’s?

I don’t agree with any of this MGTOW/MRA ideology but Sandman is right about Elam’s motivations. He has some other weird things to say but there is ONE thing he’s right about.

Elam is only in this for cash and clicks. AVFM has dropped its Alexa rating and we all know how bad the fall fundraiser went.

Elam’s in trouble. The problem is this means he’ll start going after more and more women to get more clicks, money and attention.

Have a Good Samhain/ Happy Halloween!

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29 thoughts on “From One Manospherian to Another: Elam is an Opportunist For Cash, Clicks and Attention

  1. Holy shiat the alexa ranking info on a voice for men is so utterly revealing and terrifying. Also why does it says mag-town? I thought it was M G T OW spelled out separately.

  2. I am continually amazed at the confusion these people seem to live in. Who are they? What DO they believe? And MAN!! Do they have a habit of eating their own?

    I STILL can’t figure out what Janet Bloomfield stands for or believes. She vacillates back and forth between feminism, anti-feminism, traditionalism, anti-traditionalism.

    But, the thing that gobsmacked me the most was the comment on one of her videos that the reason she is home taking care of her kids is because she’s an idiot? She back-tracked a little later in the video….but…WTF? Do you want stay home with your kids or not? Who ARE you woman? What do you stand for?

    And the rest of these yahoos…..good grief……I can’t tell who they are, what they believe, or what they are about. They all seem horribly confused and lost to me.

  3. I never checked Alexa before. For most radfem sites, which fly under the radar, it’s irrelevant, but it does help in looking at AVFM because the whole idea is to be a big, money-generating site: http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/avoiceformen.com

    Looking at that huge drop in the third week of September 2014 or so, I don’t know what happened. The conference, which I would have thought would have generated traffic in late June and July as the transcripts were endlessly published, doesn’t seem to have had any impact. Hembling’s banishment has been leaked gradually to the membership and happened a while ago.

    HMQ, you’ve commented about how there haven’t been any major doxxing attacks for a few months. It is true as you say that Elam has attacked a TV actress in the middle of a divorce and a woman journalist who wrote a critical article on AVFM, but these aren’t the kinds of attacks on women that energize the members, it seems. They aren’t “hunts” to dox anonymous feminists or obscure young women students. Attacks on professional older people like Mary Kellett don’t seem to interest the members. There’s no energizing erotic/violative energy.

    Presenting young vulnerable women victims to the membership to be hunted has been an important membership driver and so I expect, as you say, Elam will get back to business on that. I think the AVFM virtual silence on Gamergate and its women victims was deliberate, but the traffic went elsewhere. Elam can’t re-brand his site as legitimate because it is built on these “hunts”. He is hoisted on his own peter.

    Regarding the MGTOW video, from a radfem perspective I can only applaud as the men seem to want, at least at their “highest” levels, to leave women alone. Women are putting up so much resistance to male control that these men are giving up and not engaging. They don’t like it, they are furious, they still sneak in some dating and they still no doubt eat Mom’s dinners, and they still wish for the good old days when women weren’t so damn fractious and bristly with equal protection of the laws, but in theory at least, they stop trying to control women.

    I’m a big MGTOW fan. Some men and women will always get together on some basis, the species isn’t going anywhere, but this withdrawal is great news for women who need a few decades or centuries to breathe free air.

    The strange thing is that the MGTOWs seem to have an enormous blind spot regarding the effect of their withdrawal on women. They seem to believe that women will suffer over it. I guess it makes them feel better, but the truth is that women are secretly rejoicing at the thought.

    Those old widows who live in their own homes and don’t remarry – do they really think they are pining for some old man to take care of? They are practiced at pretending to be wistful about their solitude in public to avoid negative attention, but once they get home, they are smiling. Those single mothers living their own lives – they’re working through their negative social conditioning rapidly.

    Certainly radical feminists agree with MGTOWs that men should keep to themselves, that marriage is an oppressive institution, that men and women can’t live together except in a dominance hierarchy (though they risibly think the wrong sex is dominant), and that life can be very comfortable and satisfying when the sexes live apart from each other. It’s a great basis for a different kind of society in which relations between the sexes become more formal and distant (and I hope eventually, cordial), and all people are free. The liberation of women has taken many a twist and turn. This movement is encouraging. Rock on MGTOWs!

  4. I see I’m awfully optimistic today. I realize there’s a much darker future scenario possible in which MGTOWs, fed up at having to wash their own underwear, frankly make war on and attempt to make women back into property. By that time women will have figured out how to protect themselves, I hope.

  5. Sandman is proposing “level’s of MGTOWs as in the martial arts. Bottom line is no married man can be MGTOW. Above that, lower-level MGTOWS who can’t resist, date women, but angrily. A little higher up the new hierarchy, they stay away from women except to hate on them. At the apex level of enlightenment they have nothing to do with women and don’t even hate them any more.

    Sandman’s video has an epic comment section, almost 700 comments lambasting Elam and agreeing with HMQ that he is an opportunist and a hypocrite. I don’t think there is a single comment from a woman in the bunch. One of them says his move to expand MGTOWs to married men must mean he’s about to get married to the woman he has been with for 11 years. I thought that was interesting as they don’t seem aware he has already been married, according to reports, four times.

    I doubt Elam has ever seen this level of attack from men who could have been members of his site. The gist of the opposition is that Elam is trying to go mainstream, as we here have been saying for some time.

    The comments reveal a desire on the part of these men to drop out of the current society and disengage from women, as I said before. One of them complains that he got in trouble on AVFM for posting that women are not able to be independent and their only value to society is their sexuality. That seems to be a widespread underlying MGTOW belief, and leads to their conclusion that if enough men drop out, women will be hurt by not finding husbands.

    If that’s what they need to believe and it keeps their fury in check, fine. We’re pining away. We are miserable that there’s a movement for men to not marry and leave women alone. Women absolutely can’t get along for a second without a man controlling them. We are devastated that MGTOWs are leaving us. We secretly want to be utterly dependent on men and not make any decisions about our own lives. We can’t make it on our own.

    Seriously, though, if MGTOWs have their way and really follow their own rhetoric, women will be free. Marriage will end as an oppressive institution.

    Male violence against us will cease if they carry out their theories. It’s true that In the 700 comments about disengagement I skimmed, I didn’t see one word about male violence against women ceasing, but that is no doubt just an oversight — disengagement does mean disengagement from hurting women as well as not marrying them — doesn’t it?

    • I don’t really get MGTOW. The first time I saw it, I took it at face value, which is that men were going their own way, as men, and wanted nothing to do with women. We used to call these guys “confirmed bachelors.”

      But, that’s clearly not what MGTOW is about. They spend ALL their time hating women. I’ve seen whole videos with weird, nerdy men talking about being MGTOW while saying out loud the horrible, sexually perverse, sexually violent and disturbing things we read from the trolls here all the time!

      So, I don’t see much hope in MGTOW because they don’t really mean it – they are just especially bitter toward women and, I’m sure, as dangerous as any MRA.

  6. Hi WOOW, that is the question, isn’t it? Are they really just about the hatin’ on women part, and they couldn’t live without bothering a woman a single day? Are they hypocrites even at this early stage? Is their disengagement talk just posturing because they think it will scare women? Are they actually obsessed with women and think of nothing else?

    But that would be clownish…that would make them bozos….

    I prefer to think they will retire like gentlemen. hahahahah!

  7. Diana Davison has just put up her video about the SCHI-ZM and the MGTOW Question!
    h**p://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHNX0ewM9EA (Sign out of all your email or blogging accounts before going there)

    Allow me to briefly summarize a few of the points she makes:

    She says Elam looked sad while telling a bunch of lies about her and Hembling. Well, that’s an improvement over looking berserk while telling a bunch of lies about feminism.

    She called Paul that C word. Because he called her that C word. This seems to be AVFM’s very favorite vocabulary item.

    She reveals that FeMRAs are so useful as members that she was asked to be an AVFM Admin — but she had to pretend she was a guy named Michael Hunt! Later, she reveals that she was also a “ninja editor” (uncredited) at AVFM for a long time. That rings a few feminist bells. Work work work and no credit, then tossed out. She doesn’t seem to make the connection, but I always have hope for women.

    She is shocked, shocked that Elam “has lied about my character, and he’s done it intentionally”. It’s as though she has blithely ignored that she’s been working on a site where Elam does this to women ALL DAMN DAY LONG.

    She says she’s just a scapegoat, that the trouble is really that MGTOW’s have been a pain in the ass for AVFM for a long time. Her support for MGTOWs is obscure and of no interest, but Elam is blowing it up.

    She says sarcastically, “Perhaps I’m fucking all the MGTOWS — I do have a car.” Now I for one thought that was an amazing statement. She has a car!

    The written youtube description on Davison’s video has this to say:

    “Oh, and I actually asked Paul why people were talking like he was dead already (re the R Todd Kelly article) and we had a laugh about it. A few months later Dean Esmay made an announcement to all key staff that Paul was seriously ill and we were to stop Skyping him or asking him for anything. I might have at one point, after he told JtO that he has nothing to do with the running of AVfM and all John’s concerns were non-issues, said that Paul was acting like he was dead and maybe he really was dying. The backchannel discussion of Paul’s health was actually issued by Dean Esmay.”

    Is this even Paul Elam at all, throwing over his old comrade and his gal-slave, pushing married MGTOWism, not hunting girl victims any more? Is something being hidden from the public?

    h**p://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1-eihtxruQ

    • Well the comments on her video are endless streams of lol but one of them was that AVFM has over 500 sock accounts! LOL

      I believe it too.

      Nothing like a good ole Elam powertrippin echochamber to to get the addict’s ego happy.

  8. I guess Elam names them. Did he give Davison the name “Mike Hunt”? Very clever. All respect to FeMRAs for being so gosh-darn good sports.

  9. Now comes Thunderfoot (aka razorbladecandy), a sort of Indie MGTOW Torquemada, with an almost 90-minute video rat-a-tatted in a digitized British public-school voice, condemning Elam’s “Married MRAs R Cool” campaign as an amoral money-grub, treating Davison jovially as a sex toy who only speaks through her man, approving of Hembling in manly fashion by calling him names and shoving him into the wall a few times before giving him a (painful, I would think) bear hug, announcing that he is commencing an Inquisition on charges that Judgybitch is a gynocentric bitch, opining that traditionalists are worse than feminists and that he’s tired of fighting feminists because feminism is soooo over and tradcons are the current enemy, and calling for immediate and merciless persecution of tradcons, those subverters of the Faith.

    Y’all may be bored with this clowning by now, but I can’t wait to find out what antics will happen next. SCHI-ZM!

    The video really is about 90 minutes. Be sure you’re signed out of all other accounts before using youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8daTGTJkpg

    • I saw it. Notice how all the talking about Davison is sexual. These guys truly do not have sex with women. I’m totally convinced. I bet Hambling has her sign a waiver before touching him that says she won’t pull out ‘the gun’ that every woman has to shoot him in the crotch. LOL!

      Turns out Elam is woman hater who stirred the pot by casually telling people Diana fucks lots of MRA’s before settling on John and that she’s a bat shit crazy bitch.

      Then there’s her, who being sortof a princess of shitlords who gets sexually drooled upon and simultaneously called a bitch cunt troublemaker who’s running the whole show. Priceless.

      Elam is failing. He knows it. They know it.

      His little addict ego stroking machine, AVFM, is turning out to be harder for the fragile manbaby to handle.

      • It occurs to me that this aggressive online male behavior toward women (Diana, Zoe, Anita – basically anyone who walks fully upright and isn’t covered with fur and stench) has the same eroticized sexual aspect to it that men’s physical aggression toward women has.

        I think they are *really* getting off on this. I now read the term “rage boner” in a completely new light.

    • Diana Davison is now responding

      In the lowbar she says:
      Philosophy has a tendency to be abused by pseudo-intellectuals who don’t really understand what they are talking about. It is also abused by those who should know better but are overcome by their own ambitions and ego.

      Paul Elam anyone?

  10. I have erased a critical comment because I just can’t add my woman-self to the pileon that going to happen to this gal from the guys she’s femsplaining to.

    It’s all straw, every one of her and their arguments. They are attacking straw women who want equal rights but still want to be traditional housewives and dates who men have to buy drinks for. Whoever these straw women are, they are not feminists. To the extent there are such in western countries, they are traditional women in transition. Feminists prefer to have their own wallets, thanks.

    Feminists advocate women taking care of themselves. Special protective laws for women have just about disappeared. We are on our own, and it’s not an easy ride, since we still live in a patriarchal-value society in terms of customs and mores, but it’s our ride, the ride that insists we are fully autonomous human beings.

    Custody is based on the best interests of the child, and it isn’t feminists standing in the way of society developing so that women aren’t overwhelmingly the people who do childcare. That’s a hangover from traditionalism.

    Child support is based on parents’ mutual responsibility for their children and is carefully regulated and watched. Feminists don’t advocate women staying home for any other reason than the interests of young children, for a temporary period. This whole system is dying out rapidly as women can now make their own incomes, are agitating for accessible child care, and have better educations and less employment discrimination. The traditional system is still in transition but all signs are that we are moving swiftly toward equal treatment of mothers and fathers in terms of the work-life balance.

    Marriage isn’t advantageous in the west to men anymore because feminists have changed an inequitable legal system: men can no longer each have a personal servant, can’t rape their wives at will any more, can’t force their wives to stay with them even when they abuse them as they could before, and can’t blackmail them into staying by having a judicial system that gives fathers custody of the children, which was almost always the case until recently.These are facts. Most women in less-developed countries still live with all this, and their struggle is just beginning.

    The institution of marriage never was advantageous to women. It is a system that subordinates women, straight up, no argument possible here. MGTOWs can’t even look at this fact, as their straw house is built on the mistaken notion that free women would want to be married.

    Judgybitch admits she wasn’t free. She was not taught to be independent, study a lucrative profession, and support herself, let alone her children. She was raised in a traditional way and has no other option but to marry. That is unfortunate, and something feminists are trying to do something about.

    MGTOWs complain that men “had” to support the family economically in the traditional days, and say they don’t like that role and won’t play it any more. Feminists say, yes, and we have helped you escape from that rigid gender role by forcing the patriarchy to open jobs to women, you’re welcome.

    But that’s not what many MGTOWs and MRAs want to hear. They want that role back along with all the restrictions on women that made that role such a great gig for men for so long. It worked for them and an equal world “feels” unequal to them because they were raised with traditional attitudes that men have a divine right to be the heavy on the seesaw. So they build more straw arguments out of denial and shoddy thinking.

    They don’t have to erect their straw arguments. It’s much easier and more efficient to consider that we are in a transition period in which a lot of people, both men and women, are letting go of the traditional female-subjugation paradigm, presenting many issues.

    Those traditional days are over. If they disagree with this statement, they should just come out as people who frankly want women to stay subjugated (restricted and controlled and “protected” by men). All confusion would then be clarified and the straw would fly off in the breeze.

    As for the straw argument that women now have too much power, WE ARE IN A TRANSITION. Adjustments and re-weighings will occur. Why not work on them, but minus the hateful resentment that makes it so difficult to make progress? AVFM is a company, as Thunderfoot calls it, that profits off hateful resentment. The tone of these disagreements doesn’t have to be “guttural misogyny” as the SPLC called it.

    It would be a lot less painful for everybody if MGTOWs said, aw shit, okay, let’s look at this society where women have freed themselves (at least, legally), and let’s adapt. There can be more separation of the sexes, more formality, more contract law, a primary emphasis on preventing violence and coercion. Ending violence is the key and what we should all be working on.

  11. Folks, Thunderfoot obligingly posts Chanty Binx’s (hope it’s ok Ms. Binx to use that name, I don’t know if it’s real or not) fantastically fearless video. MRAs like to forget she was being relentlessly harassed as she attempted to read a statement as to what MRAs and feminists have in common!

    What a beautiful woman she is,and look how she stands up to being harassed! A real inspiration.

    h**p://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1-eihtxruQ


  12. The first try didn’t work.

    Note Dan Perrins, the bearded one. Look at how many MRAs there are. She takes no prisoners, and this is a carefully edited MRA video that leaves out the fact that she was being prevented form reading. She also has a nice singing voice. I’d call her a mezzo. Good for you, Chanty, and sorry to be so long telling you how much I admire your courage!

      • In between the misogynistic, perverted, foul things he said about women, and the usual male reversals, in general, this guy makes more sense than any dudebro I’ve heard in a while.

        What he says about excluding people whose ideas are hostile to the group makes a lot of sense. His defense of “reasonable tribalism” at about 6:20 makes perfect sense and is remarkably rational. It certainly applies to feminists groups who have every reason for excluding men, for example.

        “…Marriage is an immoral institution, that is not only criminal and fraudulent, but impossible to consent to…” Of course, he thinks its men who are enslaved by marriage, which is at odds with historical reality going back a few thousand years (in which “family” was defined as a man and his hierarchy of slaves over which he had the legal right of life and death!), but he did get that much, which I placed in quotes, absolutely right.

        If MGTOWs were serious about leaving women alone – not raping us, not prostituting us, not committing other violent crimes against us for their pleasure, not seeking to enslave us in various institutionalized ways – then that’s definitely something I could support.

        This guy is really vile, though. I’m amazed, however, at one of these dudes sounding in the leastwise rational. I’ve just never heard it before. This is a first.

        I don’t have any hope that men are going to stop trying to harm us, though. I’ve heard too many promises from dangerous men in the past and consequently I understand that they can’t really help themselves and whether it’s biological or social, the result is the same.

        • Yeah, some of what he says is feminist but of course we’re talking about men who aren’t really going their own way unless it means endlessly targeting women and abusing us.

          Here’s a video where a MGTOW guy went out with a woman a couple times and then called her a bitch.

          Once you hear him talk about what he did and his attitude on the ‘dates’ you’ll understand why she split.

          He calls himself ‘sexymgtow.’ He sounds like a rapist.

        • “If MGTOWs were serious about leaving women alone – not raping us, not prostituting us, not committing other violent crimes against us for their pleasure, not seeking to enslave us in various institutionalized ways – then that’s definitely something I could support.”

          Well said. It would be a wonderful collateral effect that logically follows from their philosophy.I’m sure they’ll follow through, hahahahaha!

      • So this is Barbarossa. He wants to drive in his own MGTOW lane and he demands MRAs, especially Fidelbogen, stay in theirs.

        I did read Bar Bar’s offensive slur of a lady who calls herself “Shieldwife”. This lady is an anti-egalitarian traditionalist MRA who writes earnestly about —

        But then you read the responses from her fellow MRAs and lo, they all have to do with her bra size. Nobody seems to know what she’s writing about. She’s a woman. Amusing women are tolerated for a while, especially if they can be fapped to as well. When they get all earnest and try to say something real they’re no fun any more and the slurs start piling up. Davison is now making that mistake.

  13. That guy has an extremely foul mouth. What a low class guy! I don’t know what this guy looks like, but I’m picturing a wrinkled shirt with loose hairs and dandruff all over it. He probably hasn’t washed or combed his hair in a while. He probably wears high water pants pulled up to his armpits. Yeah, “sexy,” that is.

    This girl was 18. I wonder how many decades old this loser is and what kind of outrageous lie he must have told her to get her to follow him anywhere, at all.

  14. Pingback: If you want to help boys and men–Don’t donate to A Voice for Men. | stonerwithaboner

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