Tuesday Open Thread, Because I Was Late

This is a check-in. How is everyone doing? I was late on my usual Monday open thread so here it is.

Discoveries this week include V sharing the spoken poetry of Dominique Christina. Here’s one of her works called the Period Poem

Also, Dean Esmay is writing for Huffington Post so I’m boycotting it until they get rid of him.

I’m still reading Woman Hating by Dworkin and there’s a passage from the 13th century regarding the Church’s views on women and the massive Gynocide of the Burning Times. I read it and immediately thought ‘that’s exactly what MRA’s say. That could be written by Elam!’

Burning times

Replace ‘witchcraft’ with ‘feminism’ and you’ve got Elam and friends.

Incredible, isn’t it?

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37 thoughts on “Tuesday Open Thread, Because I Was Late

  1. Re: Dominique Christina. I am ROTFLMAO! I hate him, too. The natural relationship that all women have to life and death in this way is something men never can understand. I think it is a large part of why they lack empathy, in general, and why they hate us, in particular. There is so much power in our hands. They have to wrest it away from us with rape, with legislation, with threats, and by withholding knowledge (especially our own medical knowledge, which they have replaced with patriarchal medicine).

    WFT is the matter with HuffPo? They’ve always hosted a lot of misogyny at their website, but this is the icing on the proverbial sh#t cake. I checked out his article on the subject of women raping men. Once again, they are trying to frame rape as sexual intercourse without full consent, which is not what rape is about, at all. Men raping women is extremely violent (as in men choke us, beat us, drag us by our limbs, do other horrible things to us and often cause internal injuries to our reproductive organs – and laugh sadistically while they’re doing it very often) and it isn’t just about men sticking it in without permission, although that is a big problem to and does constitute rape. It’s not, however, what most women mean when we say a man – or men – raped us. Moreover, if a woman raped a man (big IF this is even physically possible, which is highly questionable), the act would not have the same consequences to a man because of his biology – he cannot get pregnant, cannot get tears in his vagina or injuries to his womb, he’s not going to get pregnant from rape or have a miscarriage or still birth because of it. Rape, like PIV, is very invasive and potentially harmful to women, but it is not to men. So, it is unlikely that a woman is going to give a man stiffy-medicine, tie him up, mount him and penetrate herself with his teenie-weenie. It’s not a realistic scenario. In short, it’s more liberal B.S. and more of men’s imaginary worlds, which we are expected to swallow and if we don’t we are bigots, phobiacs, haters, etc.. I refuse. Call me names all day long, I’m used to it. Men have been doing it to me since I was a tiny girl. Why would they stop now?

    Something else about this bizarre relationship between Yeti-man and HuffPo. HuffPo is probably the biggest liberal rag in the nation. I thought the MRAs were conservative extremists… I am so confused! What a strange marriage this is.

    Feminism and witchcraft are inseparable concepts. Witchcraft is the Wise Woman’s Power. A witch is a wise woman and “craft” is from the old Anglo-Saxon word, “power.” Wise women’s power is what we seek to restore. It’s in us, this power – just like Dominique Christina says in the video above – and they only way they will kill witchcraft is to kill us – and if they do that, they die themselves. What’s scary about that is that they seem hell-bent on self-annihilation.

      • Also, regarding the meaning of the word, “witchcraft,” here is the intro. to an article at JSTOR about the meaning of “kraft.” Kraft means power.

        http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/433455?uid=3739760&uid=2129&uid=2&uid=70&uid=4&uid=3739256&sid=21104656404931

        I stress this meaning of witchcraft as the Wise Woman’s Power because a lot of young people new to “The Craft,” (especially, those who’ve seen the movie by that name and really taken it to heart) seem to have a distorted sense of the word, witchcraft. It’s not about a masonic-style craft or gild or about making seasonal arts and crafts to celebrate our witchcraft-practicing ancestors.

        Witchcraft is about real powers and abilities (repressed in most of us, although some of us do seem to be irretrievably cut off from it) that women intrinsically possess, most of which men don’t have because of their biology and nature – even the nature of their subtle bodies and their nervous systems. (We don’t talk about these things too openly because men – most, but not all – think it’s funny or think we are crazy. But, I have talked to many people about it and women can do things conventionally thought to be impossible.) When we say men lack sensitivity, this is what we mean – they literally lack the ability to receive and interpret impulses from the outside environment the way we do. Their relationship to the world because of the development of their nervous systems is very different. Theirs is very crude and ours is very refined. Our spiritual nature (our auric fields for example) are much finer and give a different appearance than men’s do – although men’s is the model you will find in occult books since the late 19th century.

        I know it is not popular to say this and the liberal feminists will refute me with the idea that feminism is somehow about achieving equality with men – but, this has never really been the purpose of feminism. It has always been about abolitionism and the re-establishment of our power, which is not like men’s so-called power, which is not power at all but the weakness of parasites who must find a host (us) to survive.

    • Re: Dominique Christina. I am ROTFLMAO! I hate him, too. The natural relationship that all women have to life and death in this way is something men never can understand. I think it is a large part of why they lack empathy, in general, and why they hate us, in particular. There is so much power in our hands. They have to wrest it away from us with rape, with legislation, with threats, and by withholding knowledge (especially our own medical knowledge, which they have replaced with patriarchal medicine).

      Yes. This is a major theme of Woman Hating by Andrea Dworkin. She talks about what romantic love is and how it’s sadomasichism invented by men due to their fear of women and their need to dominate us.

      She talks about men’s fear of castration which is a result of the physical action of intercourse and how men fear losing their dicks inside a vagina, the all powerful vagina. She brings up men’s extreme tiredness after ejaculation and how that is turned into fear of women’s uterus/vagina because it robs a man of strength. Indian cultures talked about sucking the sperm back up into their dicks.

      WFT is the matter with HuffPo? They’ve always hosted a lot of misogyny at their website, but this is the icing on the proverbial sh#t cake. I checked out his article on the subject of women raping men. Once again, they are trying to frame rape as sexual intercourse without full consent, which is not what rape is about, at all. Men raping women is extremely violent (as in men choke us, beat us, drag us by our limbs, do other horrible things to us and often cause internal injuries to our reproductive organs – and laugh sadistically while they’re doing it very often) and it isn’t just about men sticking it in without permission, although that is a big problem to and does constitute rape. It’s not, however, what most women mean when we say a man – or men – raped us. Moreover, if a woman raped a man (big IF this is even physically possible, which is highly questionable), the act would not have the same consequences to a man because of his biology – he cannot get pregnant, cannot get tears in his vagina or injuries to his womb, he’s not going to get pregnant from rape or have a miscarriage or still birth because of it. Rape, like PIV, is very invasive and potentially harmful to women, but it is not to men. So, it is unlikely that a woman is going to give a man stiffy-medicine, tie him up, mount him and penetrate herself with his teenie-weenie. It’s not a realistic scenario. In short, it’s more liberal B.S. and more of men’s imaginary worlds, which we are expected to swallow and if we don’t we are bigots, phobiacs, haters, etc.. I refuse. Call me names all day long, I’m used to it. Men have been doing it to me since I was a tiny girl. Why would they stop now?

      I don’t know why they’re allowing Dean Esmay to publish his misogynist patriarchal crap on their site but I’m womancotting it and advising other feminists to do so. I might start a petition to get him pulled.

      Feminism and witchcraft are inseparable concepts. Witchcraft is the Wise Woman’s Power. A witch is a wise woman and “craft” is from the old Anglo-Saxon word, “power.” Wise women’s power is what we seek to restore. It’s in us, this power – just like Dominique Christina says in the video above – and they only way they will kill witchcraft is to kill us – and if they do that, they die themselves. What’s scary about that is that they seem hell-bent on self-annihilation.

      Through reading Woman Hating I am certain Andrea thinks paganism is inseparable from women’s lives too. She talks a lot about the Malleus Mallificarium and quotes various clerics on their thoughts about women being Devil’s best friend. This need to make women beasts is men’s way of justifying their rape and murder of women, it literally does because conservative estimates were that 9 million women died. Dworkin calls this Gynocide and she laments that women haven’t united more behind this herstory of persecution that affects all women, all the time.

      You know Deep Green Resistance? I haven’t fully researched this radical ecofeminist group in much detail but I’ve listened to some of their vids on YT and follow them on Twitter and their tweets are identical to what we say. They reside in the PNW so it might be good to align with them.

      Maybe I’ll do an article on them once I feel I’ve researched them in a comprehensive manner.

      • I don’t visit HuffPo often because I can’t stand the misogyny disguised as liberalism or progressivism I invariably see there. They, also, regularly advocate for victim disarmament, which I classify as a form of misogyny, as well.

        I only remember reading about Deep Green Resistance in relation to Andrea Dworkin. I don’t know much about it beyond what’s at the Wikipedia entry and at their website. I love Andrea Dworkin, but she really trusted men too much and even after her death she was betrayed by the man she lived with. I have great reservations about any organization that involves men. I’m, also, concerned that any legislation such an organization might win in its favor will be turned against the poor, especially women, farmers and the working class, by those at the top of the hierarchy. (This is a point Sonia Johnson made about the futility of changing laws to benefit women and then having men use those same laws as a weapon against us. They own the law. We hear this assertion from the MRAs all the time – they are angry that women have changed laws or tried to use the law to punish violent men.) It’s a pattern that can be observed with organizations that sound like this one. But, they do have some interesting ideas. I read the Wiki entry. I can’t imagine how the gender-overlords managed to insert themselves into that particular argument, but apparently they did and they hate DGR as much as they hate us and women, in general. So, they must be doing something right. Still… there are a lot of men in that organization, so I see no hope for progress with them. Men are infiltrators and saboteurs – ultimately parasites on women and women’s work. Any effort of ours that involves them is doomed to failure.

        Yes, I think Malleus expresses men’s lack of understanding of women because of men’s naturally limited capacity. Like Andrea said, they fear women’s power in every way. They are, also, aware of what they are doing to us and deeply fear justice.

      • Hi, I have some knowledge of DGR. It seems to me to be primarily an ecology group, but it is unusual because it has a radical feminist philosophy as one of its main tenets. DGR as a whole advocates for an abandonment of civilization. The idea is that civilization with its exploitation of natural resources and death-orientation is destroying our earth. The leaders are talented writers and active on the speech circuit. It’s evolving rapidly, I think, and has very healthy internal dissension. The group is still relatively small and young.

        The women do caucus separately, I believe.

        Of their five Guiding Principles, this is the Fifth:

        “Deep Green Resistance is a radical feminist organization. Men as a class are waging a war against women. Rape, battering, incest, prostitution, pornography, poverty, and gynocide are both the main weapons in this war and the conditions that create the sex-class women. Gender is not natural, not a choice, and not a feeling: it is the structure of women’s oppression. Attempts to create more “choices” within the sex-caste system only serve to reinforce the brutal realities of male power. As radicals, we intend to dismantle gender and the entire system of patriarchy which it embodies. The freedom of women as a class cannot be separated from the resistance to the dominant culture as a whole.”

        http://deepgreenresistance.org/en/who-we-are/guiding-principles-of-deep-green-resistance

        Radfems do not have many organized presences in the U.S. and this is one of the few. However, I have a couple of concerns that keep me from joining: as WOOW says, one must be cautious when an organization has male as well as female leadership; and some of the talk about resistance and revolution seems to envision violence.

        WOLF (Women’s Liberation Front) is in some ways a separate outgrowth of DGR and is a woman-only organization: http://womensliberationfront.org/

  2. Also, regarding the Yeti-man’s HuffPo article on men being raped by men – a total male fantasy. I saw it done on an episode of Desperate Housewives – she gave him stiffy medicine and stole his sperm! LOL! This is fiction. It’s not the real world.

    Actual rape of women by men – which is a real thing that happens all the time, not a delusion, not the product of women’s irrational fears and phobias – is the main instrument in the oppression of women. Rape and the threat thereof is how men keep women and girls (because men start raping us when we are very young, often as infants) in a state of constant terror. It is how they get us to acquiesce. It is why we defer to them when we don’t want to – we have learned the consequences at an early age.

    Furthermore, sodomy, which is what the dudebro probably meant when he was talking about male “rape,” in the comments section of a recent post, is a crime perpetrated by men on both women and men. But, when men sodomize other men, it is obviously not because of systematic oppression. The man is not terrorizing another man into submission as part of a world-wide social order. I don’t know exactly why he’s doing it, but I think this is a man’s issue that men (however they label themselves) ought to undertake a study on. They should NOT expect US to do it. They should do it themselves. And, if there really were a genuine men’s rights movement, they would be looking into why men sodomize other men. Obviously, they are perverts, but maybe there’s some other reason, which might be of interest to men and which might benefit everyone.

  3. Oops! Another big error. In the first line of my comment above, I meant to say the Yeti-man’s article on men being raped by women. This is a male fantasy. Men cannot really rape other men like men rape women because they don’t have vaginas. They can only sodomize other men.

    So, if there were such a thing as women raping men like Yeti-man claims, it still would not be women exercising systematic terror over a men. But, this is a fiction and a fantasy that belongs in the realm of science fiction and really is pointless to discuss, except for comic relief, which is much needed when we talk about being raped.

  4. Hi WOOW, I’m glad you and HMQ are discussing the Esmay article.

    What is the misogynist agenda here? I’d argue, to obfuscate the definition of rape and thus invisibilize it, to try to remove mens’ responsibility for rape, to bring up sodomy of men and conflate that with rape, and to attack the credibility of the many data-collecting organizations which report on rape.

    Why is this an agenda? Patriarchal societies need rape of women to be tolerated for many reasons. The primary reason is to reward good male soldiers and those who keep women out of public spaces, as well as to provide an outlet for men who for whatever reason do not receive as much sexual access to women as they desire.

    Radfems hold the line for women. The first line we hold is with reference to definitions. Rape is exactly what you say it is, WOOW, the unconsented penetration of a woman’s vagina. The unconsented penetration of a man’s anus, as you point out, has a different context, frequency, motivation, and consequences, and is sodomy. All other sexual crimes have the legal elements of assault and battery and can be handled under existing common and statutory law.

    The second line we hold is with reference to the fact that rape is almost never an individual act, neo-liberalism notwithstanding. It may only be discussed in the context of patriarchal/capitalistic/racist society. The patriarchal excuse is the Jack-the-Ripper syndrome — only crazy individuals acting anomalously rape. But even Jack the Ripper used his class to get close to the women he raped and killed, and killed based on the women’s vulnerability as members of the prostituted class. And perhaps the rape that is most common worldwide, marital rape, is part of the religious institution of marriage. It is explicitly the duty of a good Moslem wife, for instance, to not complain when she is coerced into sexual intercourse. Rape is a patriarchal institution and radfems do not refer to it as an individual aberration.

    The third line we hold is to name the agents of rape. The agents of rape are men, with vanishingly tiny exceptions.

    The fourth line we hold is our condemnation of male rape. We name the agents – men – and we discuss the way class and race and ethnicity impact which men are sent to prison to be raped.

    The fifth line we hold is to stress the special horror of the crime of rape in the face of those reactionary mens’ groups that try to redefine it as drunk college girls regretting consensual sex. Rape is a horrific crime that often leads to murder. This is rape: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/15/franc-cano-steven-dean-gordon_n_5150642.html If you read the media’s articles about these rapist killers carefully, you will see how they repeatedly were let go to commit more crimes. They murdered women while wearing electronic anklets, They had committed many crimes against women before, had cut off their anklets and fled, had shown every sign of being dangerous predators, yet they were as free as birds when they raped and murdered at least five women.

    • Just now on Twitter a few men are arguing that rape is natural. Is this an admission that all men rape? Is this a statement meant to instill fear?

      I say the answer is yes. It’s a patriarchal statement that men rape and do it because they know it keeps women subjugated.

      So I responded to the naturalists that if all men are naturally rapists we should get rid of all men because in this day we have human rights, we have laws against rape. If all men are rapists and will rape they should be eliminated since they cannot live in a modern law abiding human culture.

  5. Didja see this:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2850692/Now-San-Diego-State-suspends-fraternities-members-threw-eggs-waved-sex-toys-women-protesting-rape-campus.html

    Apparently, men shouted obscenities, waved dildos, threw eggs and other objects at and according to one account, masturbated at students doing a Take Back the Night March after a bunch of reported rapes on San Diego State campus. Shortly after the march, some men attempted to abduct yet another woman on campus – they tried to force her into their car. This seems like a pretty common thing, too.

    So, they are suspending the fraternities indefinitely – *they say*! They, also, say that they’re going to do some sort of sexual assault training course. Yeah, that’ll surely fix the problem, right?! I mean this is all just a misunderstanding with the menz and if the administrators sit down and talk to them, that’ll surely put a stop to it right quick. /s Liberalism run amok this is!

    • San Diego State is where that idiot prof Impelluso is from. That STEM dude that wrote an article on AVFM that math was male and ladies should just stfu about entering his precious manhood space.

      MRA rhetoric is picking up on campuses. If good men had any sense they’d be taking these men on but we all know how dudes cover for each other.

      • HMQ, thank you. I didn’t realize it was the same Uni.

        This kind of open male aggression toward women is occurring all over the place. I would like to say it is only confined to colleges, but it seems like men are increasingly aggressive everywhere. I hold up my last unsolicited public back massage and accompanied abuse by a strange man in a public setting as proof. For some reason, men these days can’t seem to keep their hands off me. This is a problem I didn’t have 15 years ago. The overall aggression is increasing.

        There are questions in comment sections about how long the rapes have been going on on college campuses. Of course, we women know the answer and I’ve discussed having to flee my first university because of a series of rapes involving my closest circle of girlfriends, a convicted rapist stalker they allowed on campus and attempted rapes – close calls that I barely escaped. So, epidemic of rape at college is nothing new. Back then we just didn’t have the World Wide Web and nobody was talking about Title IX. I’m not sure we even had anything like that. There was nowhere to go but to leave – to escape your rapist(s) and hope that your next college experience was a better one. Mine wasn’t. And, I eventually ended up at an all-women’s college and finishing my degree mostly through independent study. Do you think my human rights were violated? I do. But, men have it so much worse, you know – the poor, poor dears.

        I don’t know if MRAs or porn are to blame or if this is just the progression Susan Faludi’s Backlash. Or, maybe it’s some other factor we are not yet aware of.

          • I owned 5 pet Swedish ducks before. They were so beautiful. I raised them indoors when they were ducklings and put em in my bathtub to swim. I kept em indoors for 3.5 weeks and then had a shed for them and a duck pen with a pool. Best pets ever. I’d go into their shed with a chair at night at read to them while they plopped down on my feet to sleep and would nip at my feet and pantlegs.

            My favourite duck was a small female named Snowstar. She was much brighter in colour than the others and much smarter. She was a runty female with serious attitude. I loved her tremendously.

            My ex killed my ducks. Not with his bare hands but with his manipulations. The last manipulation he tried on me I wouldn’t fall for and it cost me my ducks. He’s a bastard and I hope he’s rotting nicely.
            g

          • That post gave me mood whiplash. On the one hand it’s nice that you’re as big an animal lover as I. On the other, sorry about the ex issue, I hate it when jilted exes screw with people’s animals. I mean I hate it when people hurt animals as a general whole, but to hurt them to hurt others vicariously is a different kind of fucked up altogether.

            Also I’m planning my end of the year post, so we can correspond via email about that thingy.

          • We’ve certainly had a lot of men visiting here from the land of make-believe this week.

            I guess I may as well make a confession of my own: I’m really Willy Wonka and this is my Chocolate Factory.

            But, I’m only Willy Wonka during the work week. On the weekends, I turn into a winged leprechaun with a face like G.W. Bush and fly off to the planet Mars on my gossamer wings.

            And, if you don’t believe me, then you’re a chocolate-phobe or a leprechaun-phobe or something.

  6. OK, since you (HMQ) have kindly opened the thread for anything on our minds, here’s what’s on mine:

    1. It struck me that I don’t care what your gender is. I only care what sex you are. Trans folk talk a lot about their gender and that’s fine. Gender is one thing and sex is another. Gender is changeable. Sex is not.

    2. The implosion at AVFM continues. Elam puts out videos attacking Diana Davison as a skank he had to fire for general skankiness. He says he had to fire John Hembling because Hembling fell under the witchery of Davison. Elam announces that it had nothing to do with Elam’s new campaign to bring in MGTOWs and consecrate married men as MGTOWs.

    Hembling and Davison make skanky vids saying what us feminists have been saying for some time: that Elam is a liar, a character assassinator, and just in it for the money. H & D charge Elam with white-knighting for Janet Bloomfield (Judgybitch), a frail, as it turns out, woman who needs AVFM’s white-knighting protection. A prominent MGTOW name Razorbladekandy (Thunderfoot) puts Judgybitch on trial for the crime of traditionalism.

    3. Many vids ensue. It’s entertaining to watch the principals attack each other for doing bad things to each other that they have happily done to feminists for years. Now it’s a bad thing, suddenly.

    4. The upshot so far is that the wishywashy philosophy of AVFM is coming into focus. it has nothing to do with “Men’s rights”. It’s an unholy marriage of tradcons and MGTOWs, now going through a narsty divorce. All AVFM will have in the end is the tradcons, which is why it is already known in more advanced political circles as simply a “reactionary men’s group”.

    5. The weirdest thing of all in a whole series of weirdly off-key events is Paul Elam going Pomo — yes, post-modern — and announcing that there’s no definition of MGTOW, it’s just a playful concept that anyone can define based on their mood, and each individual makes up their own definition. I have to laugh at this Judith Butler Third-Wave nonsense as I just watched the very sensible Gail Dines pointing out how “neo-liberals” with their fixation on individual agency, and “post-modernists”, with their blurring of all boundaries, denial of identities, and general deconstruction of all political movements, decide that each person can define each issue for her/him self and thereby destroy their movements.

    So that;s where I’m at.

    • I’ve seen the relevant videos you’re talking about.

      Elam is flailing about calling the White Ribbon a fraud engaged in child abuse.

      He’ll do anything to get attention.

      I see David over at Manboobz wrote about Elam’s libel of WR. I didn’t because it’s only feeding Elam’s need for attention and because I have an insider at WR telling me what’s going on which I can’t reveal at this time.

  7. One more off the cuff comment while this thread lasts:

    The women of AVFM are under attack. It started with Davison, or even earlier with general discontent at the success certain women MRMs (read Straughn) were having. Seems the women were more interesting and intelligent and better-spoken, which engendered anger and jealousy. It’s intolerable that women MRMs should be allowed at AVFM at all, when all women are skanks and who knows what their secret agenda might be. Enslavement of men, perhaps? Taking over? Luring miserable betas into their lairs and seducing them? Look at that photo of Alison Tieman, guys! https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRBrQZ99VWO_Cmkb4M82FrkBsSHGW8NRGEuXeGgJwzBm2uDXktz The Vampire?

    Elam brought them in. Did his monstrous ego require female huzzahs in the background? If so they were given an inch and took a mile. Did he want to pretend his anti-woman site wasn’t anti-woman? Did he know the value of women turncoats and collaborators and think it was worth the problems they brought?

    So — he brought them in. The MGTOWs didn’t like that, and neither did the masculinists. Nobody really liked them. But they manfully went to work striking out at their own sex, and seemed sincere. Erin Pizzey, the saddest addition of them all, came on board. She had earned the kudos of the mainstream, including feminists, but she went over to the dark side for reasons still obscure.

    Then Janet Bloomfield, housewife and failure, was brought in. Ms. Bloomfield was the saddest addition of all — a simple housewife who manfully adopted manful cussing and verbal assaulting and hating — and she, as a normal sort of woman, was rewarded with attention. It went to her head and she said many stupid things she will regret in future years.

    And here they are. teetering in limbo, of no current use to Elam, liabilities now…sorry, ad homs here…

    Judgybitch…over her head…a trad woman aping a man…
    Tara Palmatier…rakes in the dough, no substance…the comforter…
    Karen Straughn…patsy…showpiece for the Reich…
    Alison Tieman…flat-out collaborator against her sex…
    Erin Pizzey…befuddled angry old lady who thinks her own sex doesn’t appreciate her…
    Diana Davison…misguided…sad loss of a smart gal…
    Some legal woman with big arms and glasses…bad legal training…
    Suz McCarley or something….trad con looking over her shoulder…

    The rest…cheerleaders…

    Purge time is coming as Elam has to deal with this criticism as well as with the criticisms that he’s ancient and over the hill, and that his site is a profit-oriented expedient site that hasn’t produced a coherent men’s rights statement in twelve years of trying…and he’s dumped his partner to keep his blonde…tch tch…

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