13 thoughts on “Andrea Dworkin On Montreal Massacre and Open Thread

  1. Oooh! I am so happy to see this video. I don’t think I’ve heard this one before or if I have it’s been so long I can’t remember. She is so amazing. I wish they hadn’t killed her off so young. I always wonder what she would say about men if she could see what we’re experiencing now.

    At 23:00 and a little beyond: [My paraphrasing] We are not in the position we are in because men are stronger than we are, but because men gang up on us.

    This is the absolute truth. It’s the truth behind it all – all of it – every rape, every act of pornography, every act of violence, of discrimination in the workplace, every nightmare second we spend in public as women.

    That’s another reason I’m getting really pissed off at men *saying* they’re sorry about violence that has happened to me or you or any other women at the hands of men. The hypocrisy of that, alone, enrages me, again and again. If they’re really sorry, then do something – talk to other men, at least. I’m so sick of men’s B.S.

    Also, 28:00 on wife-beating. This is absolutely correct. They think we are all their literal property, which is why they put they put their hands on us in public places. (Like the back massage I got from the button-pusher at the blue rocks range, for instance – I’m armed and he’s STILL doing it, not because I don’t have the power to blow his mother-fucking head off, but because he knows I will be ganged up on by other men if I try to defend myself!) They are taking their wife-beating to the streets and other public places. The root of “wife” in English means simply, “woman.” It doesn’t necessarily mean one man’s personal sex slave and domestic servant. Wife really means any woman.

  2. Also, at about 27:00:00 regarding the psychologists and what we are supposed to believe is only personal and not political: “A good man is hard to find, but you just keep searching…and eventually, hopefully, maybe before you’re braindead, you’ll find him.”

    The Oprahs of the world are killing us slowly (and some of us more quickly), I swear they are. If you can’t find a man (a friend, a companion, heck, not even a business colleague) who doesn’t sooner or later get around to raping and strangling you or simply beating you unconscious whenever he has a bad day, then it’s you’re fault. You just haven’t kissed enough frogs. If you keep searching, you’ll find your prince. Maybe you were abused by your father (How many women do you know whose father’s actually stuck around who weren’t abused by them? I know very, very few.) and that’s why you can’t find a man – you’re looking for the same abusive relationship you had with your father. If you didn’t have a father figure, then you are searching for father. You just don’t understand how a proper man-woman relationship is supposed to be because of you, you, you. You have to fix your head, O Wounded Aphrodite, and if you can only do that, then men will stop raping, strangling and hitting you.

    • Adding to my previous comment, about 27:00:00: If you believe that – and I did. And, I think most women I know, apart from that lucky few who realized they were lesbians as children, really absorb that, too. We think it’s OUR fault. We’re just not doing something right. But, then if you look long enough – and thanks to the Worldwide Web, you know longer have to search the world over for the solution to the mystery – you discover that IS, in fact, part of a vast system of men’s oppression of women. It’s not you. It’s not because of you, personally, or any flaws, real or imagined, you might possess. No. This is how it’s SUPPOSED to be because men like it this way – the ALL do. This is their system, from which they benefit in every imaginable way and in some ways we women probably cannot conceive of.

      P.S. I’m working on a post for my little private, women-only blog on the subject of rape, what rapists do – how very systematic they are in the destruction of our bodies and souls because they KNOW exactly what they’re doing and how to do it to, as if they have been provided with a manual on how to destroy the life force – to women and girls in the course of a rape and how to best survive the aftermath (As you know, we call ourselves survivors because so many of us die from this, if not immediately than in the years after. I still think this is what killed Andrea and I’ll explain about that in my post.). The purpose of the post is to discuss these counter-measures, most of which are pretty theoretical, a lot based on my own experience and, also, loosely on the work of some off-beat sources.

      This violence is absolutely systematic and as personal as rape (or other violence by men against women) is, it isn’t just helter-skelter madness. They KNOW what they are doing and they are ALL complicit every last one of them!

  3. Since this is an open thread, new topic. I felt like celebrating over the weekend with the new prostitution law coming into effect. But the new law isn’t perfect, because it doesn’t come with nearly enough support for women. Someone I know online knows someone who hasn’t had a client in 3 days and it’s perhaps because they fear getting arrested now. It makes me wonder about the women who are turning tricks to try to make ends meet. Social assistance gives you about half the money you need to pay rent. It’s almost a joke. The government promised $20 million but this isn’t enough, and who knows when or how it will be implemented. Women need money now. I think we should be demanding social assistance rates be raised. But I feel hopeless about it because we’ve needed social assistance to be raised for years already, so why would now be any different? I wish our society didn’t hate the poor. Women shouldn’t have to submit themselves for sexual abuse to put food on the table. I always vote for politicians who want to help the poor, but they never get elected. Everyone prefers to vote for right wing politicians who work to increase poverty. I’m so frustrated. I want to help women but I’m powerless. I know there’s going to be a backlash against this law by the sex trade lobby. We’re going to have to fight the backlash plus fight to get money for women. What an uphill battle.

    • I’m celebrating with you but Vancouver city has decided to do their own thing and not arrest the johns. I’m going to get in touch with an old friend of mine at Vancouver Rape Relief whose been involved with speaking at the Senate hearings in favour of the bill. I’m sure the various women’s groups are putting pressure on Vancouver to get with it.

    • This is encouraging, at least, partially. Any steps toward abolition, at least, seem encouraging.

      The big terror for the victims of prostitution are that there avenue for income will be completely shut off and they will be in even worse shape. I was thinking about what I’d like to see, in an ideal world, happen for women in this awful situation. I think I’d like to see an entrepreneurial initiative of some kind – all women – women learning how to run businesses, hands on and for a profit and working with other women (and only women, not more prospective rapists and abusers) to do what they do. All women businesses, run by women for the benefit of women. That’s my my little dream.

      Remember that scene in the movie, “She Devil,” starring Roseanne Barr where they start their own business for women? Wouldn’t it be great if we had something like that?

      The original BBC series by a similar name was excellent, too Those two, the movie and original BBC series, ought to go on our list of great feminist movies.

  4. Re: Open Thread. Did you see what’s going on with the UVA campus rape thing? If not, do a quick Google on: Jackie Rolling Stone.

    Boy oh boy! If this isn’t a case for never talking to a journalist! I’d like to know if Jackie was friends with whoever did this article or what. I had a “friend” (actually another male sex predator as it turned out) who worked for a major newspaper and wanted to do an expose on something going on there involving the police and very deep corruption – a hot story at the time, but not being reported on at all correctly by any local media. He wouldn’t do the story unless I used my real name! That’s the kind of a##holes your journalist “friends” can be. Obviously, I said, “No.” And, even if he had agreed to do it not using my name he could have gotten me killed. Bottom line: Never ever trust these people – not for a second!

    The last interview I ever did and will ever do was with a newspaper journalist. I was trying to get a little free publicity for a commercial endeavor. The dude misquoted me horribly. He said that I said and actually put in quotes all kinds of things I never said, at all – not even close. Fortunately for me, this was relatively harmless, but imagine if it was something serious (sex assault or massive police corruption, for example)! I’d seriously recommend that anyone think twice before ever talking to either a journalist or a cop. Odds are it’s probably a very dangerous mistake!

    Rolling Stone blamed Jackie (the alleged victim), but the only mistake I can see that she made was trusting a journalist with anything. Now, her name – or the name of some woman or women – at UVA are being doxxed and smeared all over the internet by some misogynist dude. (Yeah, I know, that’s pretty much a redundancy, it looks like.)

    • This story gets worse as I read deeper. Apparently, Jackie, at one point, became overwhelmed with the idea of having the story go public, even anonymously – which is completely understandable. The journalist wouldn’t let her out of the story, but proceeded without her permission. Jackie also wanted to be able to fact check her part of the story about campus rape, but the Rolling Stoner appears to have gone ahead with the story without any regard to her wishes or her will being and without any fact checking on Jackie’s part. Now, of course, they are blaming her… of course, they are. You can just about set your clock by this kind of thing, it’s so predictable.

      Here are the links to articles, which provide these additional details – none of which are being reported by the rape supporters at CNN, of course:



      This is what happens when you talk to a reporter/journalist or whatever they call themselves. I assure you they don’t give a damn about their sources. In fact, I don’t know why they even bother with the formality of pretending to perform an interview. Why not just make up some shit, put some quotation marks around a bunch of it, and attribute it to their victims? It would save them a lot of time and the outcome would be exactly the same.

  5. Thank you for posting this video. I had heard one Dworkin speech before, but this was new to me. And she makes a lot of great points, such as her discussion of how the murder of women is, most of the time, not framed as murder but as “domestic.” I will definitely post this on my blog.

    It’s easy to see why liberals have such a red-faced hatred of Dworkin. She was the Woman Who Breathed Fire.

  6. Thank you for this. It moved me to tears. I had the honor of meeting Andrea here in NYC many years ago. Men clearly hated her because she spoke the absolute truth about a woman’s challenges and injustices in the world. What she says rings just as true as what she was talking about years ago. Nothing has changed, intact its gotten worse. One step forward, two steps back, it seems. Everytime us women make any hint of progress, men find ways to knock us back a few steps. We must continue to be radical in our words and actions, and not let them get the best of us. I love your website very much, and have loads more to explore…thank you.

    • Glad you found me, we do a lot of networking, my dream is for this site to become a hub for women, to disseminate info on the new backlash aka the men’s rights movement and to stop men from harming us.

      Last night I had a dream of an online radical feminist mentoring site where young women come and talk one on one and in groups with older radfems to learn and be a sister.

      The only issue is men will inevitably try to get in so I need a female webmaster who can oversee all of this and a way to check that we’re actually dealing with other women and not men.

      Maybe by personal referral only?


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