In Honour of PRIDE, A Voice For Men Attacks Lesbians

So in honour of PRIDE, Dean Esmay’s written a long, misogynist screed against lesbians called ‘Gays Against Feminism’. Like I said in my last post,  A Voice for Men is an outpost for Queer Politics and is only performing the next logical step: complete erasure and hatred of lesbians. You can see that AVFM is overwhelmingly comprised of gay men who worship gender (masculinity) and a vital component of that worship is the hatred of women.

‘Feminists may love dick, gays love masculinity’.~Fatherless AVFM

‘Gay men are what straight men WERE in the glory days of Greece and Rome.’~Narf AVFM

Most of the guys I was talking to basically told me they figured they were gay because the sex was just as pleasurable and “easier to get”.~Jason Wexler AVFM

Dean Esmay thinks gay men were the main actors at Stonewall and that men’s ‘protective instinct’ for women is why Stonewall erupted into a riot. He’s wrong, as he so often is. The lesbian that got hit with a billy club hit the cop back and it was that action that started the riots, not some gay dudes dropping dead to protect a feeble little woman as Dean portrays it.

What an asshat.

Esmay begins with a personal story about him protecting a gay male from another gay male who wanted to kill him. It’s a bit of a homoerotic tale where Esmay romanticizes about ‘cuddling him.’ Esmay places himself as the great protector of gay men and by extension AVFM. Of course Esmay is careful to inject a blatantly false narrative where he claims women are attacking gay men, which is not true.

PBS Frontline examined the homophobic assaults on gay men and all perpetrators were male. I won’t go into detail as to why men attack other men except to say the root cause is gender. Gender is also why lesbians get attacked.

Esmay isn’t content to simply talk about the issues gay men face. He must find a way to bash women:

‘Now absolutely, lesbians would often take horrible harassment and would occasionally be hurt, even killed, and sometimes mutilated like the gay men were. But as a rule, it was gay men–yes, the gay men–who were getting thrown in jail, thrown in mental hospitals, raped by fag bashers (yes, that was and is still a thing), sometimes even castrated, lobotomized, hung, or just plain beat to death. Sometimes, 100% legally. Often by, or at the behest of, women. Not just men.’

Lesbians don’t count because in his mind gay men suffered more. He’s dismissing crimes against lesbians as not that big of a deal. In fact, hate crimes against lesbians are on the rise. The underlying culture of misogyny that Dean perpetuates is the biggest reason why the general public and LGBT orgs place men front and center just like all patriarchal institutions do. Misogyny is also the cause of lesbian and gay hate crimes and also why hate crimes against lesbians aren’t counted by police as such. The worst thing to be as a gay male is ‘like a woman’ and the worst thing to be as a lesbian is the fact you are a woman. [1] [2]One look at South Africa will educate you.

I follow several lesbians on Twitter and came across a tweet this morning where a judge wouldn’t award custody to the ex wife because she had a lesbian relationship he denounced as ‘man hating.’ Click on the image link to read the screenshot.

While gay men hate lesbians because they represent ‘femininity, heterosexual men hate lesbians because they consider a woman in a relationship with another woman as a theft of sexual access that they’re entitled to. This is why lesbians are frequently raped by men. It’s so pervasive that it’s been called ‘corrective rape.’ Gay men rape lesbians too as do MtT. Dean Esmay would be content over at the white nationalist site Stormfront since they’re really obsessed with lesbians too.

Esmay instructs gay men to hate lesbians and all other women. He compares lesbians to Nazis and goes totally off the rails, rewriting Stonewall too. He does a typical men’s rights reversal saying feminists dispose of gay men. If he had a clue he’d realize that it’s men who do the disposing, not women since women are not part of gay men’s lives in any appreciable way except as ‘femininity’ foil to mock and hate in the quest for masculine supremacy.

‘Feminism has always been a movement that treats gay men as disposable. It still is. If you’re a gay man and you refuse to suck feminist dick, there will be consequences. Those consequences can include shunning, harassment, expulsion, job loss, and more. You may even be physically attacked.’~ Dean Esmay AVFM

The above cannot be backed up in any way and Dean doesn’t even attempt to. Notice how he refuses to assign women’s proper genitals to their bodies? This is hatred. He continues on some incoherent rant about racism.

‘And yes, my gay friends, this should be something you remember: feminism is implicitly racist.’

Esmay has a fascination with racism as do other MRA’s. His tweets are loaded with it. He tweets about black men, asian men, hispanic men and says ‘bigot’ an awful lot. You know what they say about someone who is so focused on race. He even includes a tweet by a white gay MRA from AVFM who tells a black woman to ‘shut the fuck up’ on Twitter. Nah, no bigotry there.

If you search lesbian hate on Google you’ll see just how much men hate women who don’t sleep with them. Of course, the typical heterosexual male will ask silly, loaded questions like this one. Here’s another hetero male who actually took the time to write a blog post on how he hates lesbians and uses the excuse that lesbians are all man haters to justify his misogyny. You don’t see heterosexual women pining online how much they want to destroy gay men for not sleeping with them. Julie Bindel exposes a couple men who faked being lesbian to colonize women’s spaces and lives.

Since AVFM is predominately a gay male hangout the comments will inevitably reflect this:

Again, the “LGBT Community” only cares about women and is, deep down at its core, misandric and anti-masculinity. They DETEST masculinity. The men who are members of such group are all women-worshipping feminists or quasi-feminists.

Admittedly some of the MRA homophobes came to Dean’s article:

‘I cannot bear to see men kissing men or women kissing women in public’

‘Even in the best case scenario when they admit that gay men have it worse than lesbians, they still say it’s because men hate women. So since gay men are fucking men (like women) that we are hated for being like women.’

The above paragraph is very interesting because it shows the inherent misogyny of our patriarchal culture. ‘Being like women’ is a cardinal sin to gay men and hetero men because it represents the lowest rung of humanity: female.

One MRA hates the idea of ‘Gay Marriage.’ Who’s the bigot here?

‘It’s a shame the guys just can’t smarten up and tell the cows to go to hell. A state marriage cert will hurt a gay man, just the same as a straight man. Don’t be bloody fools boys, leave this marriage thing alone or you will suffer for it! This money is being used by the feminist lesbians to dominate the narrative for homosexual people throughout the western world and they are running a dual fronted campaign that is exactly the same on both fronts, but with two different names.’

MRA erases lesbians

‘Homosexual men have ALWAYS been the ones who’ve fought and sometimes even given their lives for their right to exist, NOT lesbians/women.’

Bisexual MRA complains women don’t sleep with him:

‘Maybe it’s because bisexual men (like myself) know too well that it’s socially accepable for women to reject bisexual men,’

One guy seems to have figured something out but of course with the wrong conclusion:

‘In my opinion gynocentrism and racism are in a lot of times not inseperable. If you ask a racist why he hates black people so many times he’s answer will be something like: they rape our women etc. Like the Dylan Roof guy.’

Dean Esmay also thinks it’s really some matriarchal lynching mob and not patriarchal ownership of ‘my women’ that kills black men:

‘Forever and ever, “they’re attacking our women!” has been an instant call to action. And if they couldn’t back up the claim that there was an imminent threat? “They treat their women like dirt” has long been a way to direct hate at those other people.’

Another MRA sums up why black men were lynched. Hint: it was really patriarchy

‘Oh yeah, it’s become very common to accuse men of being “entitled to women’s bodies.’

MRA shares the same ideas as Dylann Roof:

‘they rape our women/have no control over animal lusts etc.’

More lesbian hate:

‘Lesbians are always so fucking hostile and fronting how tough they are.’

More hatred of dykes:

‘Maybe it’s just me, but I’ve met a LOT more bull-dykes than pleasant lesbians.’

Even more lesbian hate:

‘Maybe lesbian is Greek for miserable or something.’

Homophobia and gender worshipping:

‘The falsetto voice is the worst part. The limp wrist, the cocked hip, the flagrant weakness, are all tolerable. But that falsetto, coupled with the catty victim attitude, GTFO.’

From a gay male AVFMer:

‘I was gay for twenty years. I visited the bath houses and dark rooms in the meat districts of NYC, LA, Palm Springs. I know what happened there. It was fucking — pure fucking — by men who dared to extend the boundaries of sex:’

‘I am disgusted when I see what feminism has done to gay men.’

‘To one extent, I still think real gay men are a kind of pinnacle. They are the only ones who can enter another body and be entered by another body: to receive the fluid and leave the fluid behind. It is kind of majestic. But then, masculinity is.’

One MRA admits this:

‘but gay male misogyny IS specific to gay men.’

I explained in detail in my last post why AVFM is part of the Queer Movement in selling gender (masculinity) to gay men online. One MRA linked it in the comment section of Dean’s rant. They’re over here reading it, I know they are. My stats have jumped again. The problem with MRA’s, aside from their bigotry, racism, and misogyny, is that they cannot comprehend the theoretical basis behind what they do. The theory has been around for decades and yet MRA’s act like all this is new. We radfems know the theory and can frame what MRA’s do and say. They can’t.

When I read an MRA article I know it’s either a rant about women or a blatant reversal placing white males as the victim. In this case, Dean Esmay places gay men as the victim by pointing at lesbians and saying lesbians don’t matter because we’re women. The underlying socioeconomic and political structures that are the foundation of cultural misogyny are never included in any MRA analysis. Quite simply, they are like one of their favourite idols, Ernest Belford Bax, who was criticized for his misogyny and his inability to theoretically understand the issues, instead opting to go off into abstractions and reversals.

I’ll be doing a post or two on their beloved Bax in the future.

John Stoltenberg talks about gay male misogyny (lecture)


15 thoughts on “In Honour of PRIDE, A Voice For Men Attacks Lesbians

  1. I bet Esmay et al really loathe effeminate gay men. And that guy who is surrounded by “bulldykes”? Five bucks says that any woman who won’t tolerate his crap is a “bulldyke” in his eyes.

    MRAs aside, it really feels like effeminate gay men and butch lesbians are getting an increasing amount of hate even, or especially, from the LGBT community itself. For all the talk about how trans identity challenges the gender binary, I think it actually reinforces it. The proof is in how gender non-conforming “cis” people are treated.

  2. This is why lesbian activists should divorce themselves from “LGBT.” LGBT supports men and women who support men. But as long as this acronym is in use, it will continue to enable liars like this guy to sell this crap about LGBT being dominated by women. Get the L out. I am sick of their being no groups that actually support lesbians.

  3. MRAs are resorting to the recruitment of gay men by convincing them lesbians find them disposable (this is usually the part where bros start whining about the draft — which no longer exists. In any event, men came up with the draft after declaring their wars against other men).
    What cray-cray nonsense. He just took an MRA talking point and applied it to the gay community. From everything I’ve seen, I can only deduct that lesbians have been the disposable ones.

  4. That Frontline article was very enlightening-

    “In a nation that glorifies violence and abhors sexual diversity, a minority perceived to violate gender norms functions as an ideal dramatic prop for young men to use in demonstrating their masculinity, garnering social approval, and alleviating boredom.”

    Mortadella is right. Esmay’s article is nonsense. He never lets the evidence get in the way. I was especially disgusted at this- “Often by, or at the behest of, women. Not just men.”

    Cite? No, it’s just a hate throwaway. He’s almost as credible as Dominique Straus-Kahn.

    He has an even weirder bunch of nonsense up now. He’s attacking conservative Christians for not keeping “their” women in line. Things are getting so out of hand, even the hardliners are letting their wives out of the cage once in a while! He’s also trying to distance AVFM from a large part of its constitutency, tradcons. Without trandcons that site will fold like my granny’s fresh sheets.

  5. To clarify my comment above- he’s attacking tradcon MEN. His article is addressed to conservative christians about their need to control “their” women. In other words, conservative christians are all men. Women are just controllable property, objects owned by conservative christians. That’s how benighted he is, a ludicrous so-called “liberal” who excludes women as subjects even when he’s talking to christians, who are more than half women. He’s a tradcon quacking like a liberal.

  6. This post really made me think.
    Just because a gay man can’t be sexually rejected by a woman doesn’t mean he can’t feel threatened by her. A gay man can certainly resent a woman in other ways- he can be resentful because a woman is in a position of power of him, or has more money than he has, etc. They may not want unfettered access to women’s bodies, but many gay men want the other things straight men have, money, power, status. They don’t want women to have a chance to compete for what they want. Misogyny is about curtailing women’s power in all forms- sexual, economic, and social.

    • Yes. It’s more about the worship of masculinity, which is only a thing insomuch as it’s a set of behaviours that are taught as men’s roles: dominant, aggressive, competitive etc.

      You can see by the comments by the males over at AVFM they WORSHIP those behaviours (masculinity) and the reason why they do this is b/c they’re copying who the leaders of the world are: white males.

      It’s the same patriarchy gay men are copying.

      I know that many people got waylayed by the S and M part of the post. S and M is how patriarchy is constructed. There must be someONE or someTHING to dominate in order to say you are powerful. Women, children and boys and men who ‘act’ in the feminine role are the targets of these men to prove how powerful they are.

      I see it less about competing for resources as you’re suggesting and more about emulating straight white males although I’m sure it’s true that competition is part of it.

      John Stoltenberg has a video on gay male misogyny and how gay men get together and dominate women to prove their manhood. Now, Stoltenberg doesn’t go to the root like Dworkin did, which is male power but he does describe the process of how gay males enact misogyny.

      • I’ve also noticed that anti-feminist and “mra” women also worship masculinity but for their own dysfunctional reasons. I think in the case of women like “Janet Bloomfield” (wink, wink) it’s because they secretly fear having to support themselves and therefore despise women who’ve built successful careers outside of marriage and childrearing. They know deep down that they’re lazy or don’t have the psychological stability or skills for paid employment. Hence “Bloomfield” declares that all jobs women perform outside of servicing husbands and bearing babies are “bullshit” and that the only “real” jobs are traditional “masculine”, male dominated blue collar jobs. Nevermind almost no MRAs work in those jobs. Many MRA women desperately need validation for their own life choices- They know that men like Elam, Esmay, and other MGTOW’s are deeply insecure, and can be easily manipulated with flattery. Trashing feminists is also a way of getting male admiration at a safe distance, even if the males that admire them are losers.

        • Not too sure what your point is Andy. There are millions of women who want to marry and have children and need support especially when their children are young. It’s not because they’re afraid of getting outside jobs, it’s that society is set up to make it tremendously difficult for women to have kids and do the fulltime/commute/on call thing at the same time. I wouldn’t assume they’re all lazy, that’s for sure. Also I don’t know why women MRAs do what they do and suspect they have a lot of different reasons.

          • You’re absolutely right, Brylliant. I wasn’t saying that wanting to be a SAHM mom is wrong, or that all SAHMs are lazy, insecure/incompetent. I was saying that there are a some women who feel the need to denigrate other women who made different life choices than they did. I am currently a SAHM and never have I believed that the paid jobs women do outside the home are “useless” or “bullshit” like Bloomfield and some of the other feMRAs. I also don’t believe that all women who choose not to have children are “selfish cunts”. The problem with Bloomfield and her ilk is that they believe that women don’t do anything of value outside of being a wife and mother and want all women to choose the same path in life that they did.

          • Yes, and there are many women who simply have not accepted the horrifying fact that there is no hope for the humanity of men. They still believe in men and believe they can be better or, at least, human A lot of women buy into the fairy tale belief that men can magically be transformed from beasts and reptiles into decent human beings if only women love men enough. I think that’s why they push this traditional viewpoint and misplace the blame for men’s evil onto women – for instance, feminists and financially independent and successful women – all are scapegoats because they can’t face the fact that men a scumbags who are responsible for their own behavior.

          • One more thing about this, since we were talking about Sheila Jefferies’ work in the previous post, even SHE has trouble accepting what males are. She has a son and somewhere at my blog I have an link to an exchange between her and a man who is being very straightforward about what men are like, what evils lurk in their minds, and she completely rejects it – she just can’t accept it. This is why women criticize other women’s choices, it is always in defense of males. I notice the women who do this are often mothers with sons or life-time lesbians who have never had a close relationship with a man.

            I think about my own experiences with males and I know that no one could have really told me what men are like. Unfortunately, it’s something most women have to experience and even then, we tend to blame ourselves for what men do to us.

            This is why there are FemRas and conservative women.

        • Part of that insecurity might be practical as well. Women who have chosen to be stay at home mothers have put all their eggs in one basket. If the husbands decide to leave, those women are going to be up a creek. Unless the husbands are so wealthy, it won’t matter that the women have lost all their continuing income and have to live off the divorce settlement, women who have chosen stay-at-home motherhood are facing considerable poverty. Men are better off financially after divorce; women are worse off. Women who chose not to work aren’t going to be able to find gainful employment. It’s a scary place to be, at the mercy of a man who will likely leave you for a younger woman, and these women pour their fears and hatred onto other women.

          • I find female MRA’s hilarious in how they treat their male counterparts as little boys. If you go to an AVFM comment section some of the mods are women. They viciously protect Elam’s ego as if he’s 5.


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