While surveying the shit holes of men’s rights activists I come across a lot of stories. The stories these men tell are pathetic and quite hilarious. To read about an MRA in their natural environment, or what we’d call reality, is to see them for what they really are. When they tell a story about their day to day life you can’t help but notice the social ineptness and complete inability to read human signals or comprehend the word ‘no.’ MRA’s tend to be pretty geeky as in, the stereotype we have of the geeks and the nerds who completely failed social cues 101. It’s no wonder there’s such a thing as Gamergate.

When I read these little tales I can’t help but think these men are doomed to live a life of total isolation. Men aren’t ‘going their own way’ out of some need to get away from women. They’re going that way because they have no clue what they’re doing. I hope they all go to ‘MGTOW Island’ or whatever the fuck they’re calling it. Just leave women and children out of it.

Here’s Bob Brown (pseudonym?) and his real life tale. Bob is/was a student in college and has come to the conclusion that Title IX is a real waste based on personal experience. Take it away Bob!

‘Title IX has been around since the seventies. It exists to protect victims of sexual misconduct, ranging from harassment to rape. It gives schools the ability to charge the accused with misconduct when there is persistent unwanted behavior or in serious cases such as a single instance of rape.

My school does not distinguish between which behaviors require persistent unwanted sexual advances and which behaviors are serious. But Title IX also adds an extra parameter to the definition. It also allows schools to consider behavior sexual harassment when it negatively impacts a student’s education or creates a hostile learning environment, saying this is discrimination based on gender. This broad definition of sexual harassment gives schools the ability to protect victims, but it prevents the accused from defending his or her innocence.

In most cases, men are the accused. Despite the ability to prosecute, this law does nothing to prevent against the most common cases of sexual misconduct. Furthermore, it does not prevent misconduct from happening in the future, as the worst sanction a school can impose is expulsion, which puts a potential sexual offender on the street.

There are many reasons sexual misconduct accusations reach a school’s administration. Persistent unwanted behavior is the most common, but serious cases happen more frequently than you might think. Because the definition is broad, “persistent” does not have a clear definition. Even if your peers would consider your actions reasonable, under Title IX, with as few as two unwanted communications, an administrator can consider you in violation of their code of conduct, especially if your accuser feels like your actions created a hostile learning environment.

Any physical act is usually more serious. I’ve observed both. I fell for a girl after spending a lot of time together studying just before spring break. I asked her out over text, and she gave excuses as to why she couldn’t meet. In the past, this has been cited as evidence that she didn’t want my advances. She said she wanted to be friends, and I expressed a desire to be friends as well. After spring break, I watched her harass male students, even going so far as to sit on the lap of a guy she just met without asking, creating a hostile learning environment for everyone.

After expressing my discomfort, we grew apart. Two weeks later, the sheriff escorts me off campus and tells me that I can’t come back until my hearing. Another member of our study group, a woman, routinely tells this same girl that she would become a lesbian for her. Expressing that these sexual jokes were unwanted did not deter this female student from sexually harassing my accuser. Despite more obvious sexual misconduct around me, I was the one facing expulsion.

All of these behaviors are potentially sexual harassment. The persistent sexual jokes from one female student to another, the physical contact without expressed consent, and multiple attempts to plan a day to hang out. While there are many reasons misconduct reaches an administrator, it’s primarily male to female harassment that seems hostile.

According to Crossing the Line: Sexual Harassment at School By Catherine Hill, and Holly Kearl, published in 2011 by the AAUW, 48% of students in a representative sample of middle and high school experience some kind of sexual harassment. With such a broad definition, it’s no wonder so many people “experience” it. I showed 20 people the transcripts of our online and text interaction, some part of the study group where harassment regularly took place, some were strangers. None of them considered any of the 9 pages of transcript reasonable evidence  that my behavior was either serious or persistently unwanted. Witnesses to our interactions reported the same results.

It’s clear that despite the hard line the federal government is forcing schools that receive federal funding to take on sexual harassment and assault, this doesn’t prevent sexual misconduct under the school’s definition; it only deters people from intentionally sexually harassing others or assaulting others.

The problem at the root is not satisfactory punishment. Advocacy groups continue to object when an accused student is allowed to remain on campus or is acquitted of the charges. The Washington Times, for example, described the situation Columbia University faced when Emma Sulkowitz began carrying around a mattress to air her grievance that “the student she accused of rape was not punished.”

Facing a hearing, two months from my degree (worth about $8,000 dollars so far), I face expulsion. This means I don’t graduate, I don’t finish the semester in good academic standing despite being an honors student with a 3.6 GPA, despite having to drop classes because I’ve been accused in the past, and that means I can’t use the credits I’ve earned to transfer. I’d have to start over again, and I just don’t have that kind of money.

I consider this a violation of my civil rights as I’m considered guilty before I even walk into a hearing. I’ve had two before, and this third one will be worse because they’ll cite my history as evidence of persistent unwanted behavior, meaning that they don’t need persistence with a single girl, they just need something similar to what I’ve done before.

While rape is detestable, and sexual harassment creates hostile learning environments, and schools should give victims the ability to prosecute, people lack the understanding that sexual harassment is not based on the intentions of the accused, and that it is not just serious cases such as derogatory terms like calling someone a slut, or stalking. Even telling someone sexual interest or asking personal questions about their sex life can be harassment according to my schools student handbook.

Unfortunately, I’m prevented from linking to the code of conduct or naming the school by a retaliation clause.

Students don’t believe that they’re doing anything wrong when they call someone a pet name, when they joke about sexuality, or when they ask about personal details in general conversation. Cited in my last hearing was calling a girl “Kit Kat” as a way to remember her name, asking about her ex-boyfriend, and asking her on a date multiple times – even though she said I could call her kit-kat, even though she agreed to go on a date with me, and even though she told me that she didn’t want to go on a date with me because she wanted to get back together with her ex-boyfriend.

They said that a pet name was “derogatory,” that I persistently made sexual advances even though she didn’t want me even though I was seeking clarity, which is something they teach in their listening course. I didn’t know I did anything wrong and felt I was actually doing something right. Now I see examples of harassment everyday. Even though I’ve started to tell people they’re misbehaving, they don’t believe they could face expulsion or even civil charges.

On the current course, the school could continue to increase the severity of sanctions and have teachers actively look for evidence of harassment; however, that would marginalize half the student population. Schools will not risk violating the right citizens have to access education of so many people.

A more reasonable option is to create standard code of conduct. This would outline behavior not just describe unacceptable behavior but describe a courtship process and how to handle rejection and reject unwanted advances. For example, courtship would require a formal request issued to the desired date and an impartial witness. Dates would have clear guidelines and a chaperone.

Should both parties request a date without a chaperone, then the school cannot accept sexual harassment claims unless the accuser issues a warning to the one harassing her and an impartial witness, such as a teacher, faculty member. To file a harassment claim without issuing a formal warning, a victim would need to file a civil suit. This would protect future victims, and it would it would afford the accused due process.

To read more about due process concerns here are two articles. “Five harsh realities of sexual assault in school,” and “Expulsion Presumed/No due Process.” The code of conduct would reference alcohol in date guidelines, making sexual assault more clear, and (as formal courtship requires a witness) it reduces the likelihood that consent is questionable, and that knowledge a person cannot give consent is questionable such as with disability.

This code of conduct could be easily distributed and prominently displayed around campus. Students would not glance over it thinking that they would not sexual harass or assault others, and it would provide a fair and objective measure to judge sexual misconduct. Protecting both men and women, preventing many future misconduct due to ignorance, and giving victims the same strength to prosecute assailants without ambiguity causing civil rights violations and due process violations.’

The first thing that jumped out at me was the nine fucking pages of messages he sent her after not being able to hear the word ‘no.’ You can see he perpetually asked her about sex and her sex life. The dude is totally clueless and his solution is a chaperone on dates and a manual to handle rejection. LOOOOOOOOOOL Then he gets butthurt and decides to start policing the entire school for instances of sexual harassment, probably to bring up at his expulsion hearing to justify his own harassment. ‘This woman sat on a man’s lap and you think what I did was bad?’

Should I make #Coolstorybro a regular feature here? If you like it, let me know.


42 thoughts on “#Coolstorybro

  1. Oh, that was pathetic.
    Doesn’t he fucking know what a soft no is and why women give them?
    Dude, when someone says “no” for like, the third, fourth, fifth time…fucking give it up. In fact, give it up before that. Don’t go into hopefully optimistic mode (errr, you know, stalker mode). This guy sounds like he wouldn’t get it if a woman maced him. He’d recover, eyes swollen shut and ask, “Can I **cough** call you?”

    An adult suggesting adults need to be chaperoned on a date? Yeah, that’s not weird.

  2. “even though I was seeking clarity”

    I loathe this so much about men. I’ll run into the occasional woman who gets obsessive that she’s owed “clarity” or an “explanation”, but rarely. There are meanwhile so many men who refuse to let rejection go. And there’s no way they’re confused about the rejection. They understand perfectly well what’s going on. They’re trying to either strong-arm the woman into rescinding her rejection or are just looking to punish her. Even aside from the real risk of violence for saying “no”, demanding that a woman tell a man, “I don’t want you; I’m not attracted to you; I can barely stand to look at you,” is a punishment. Halfway decent people can’t stand being that mean or rude, least of all women.

  3. I would like to most thoughtfully suggest that whenever a dude starts trying to turn dating into something that sounds like a child custody battle, it’s not going to end well.

    Sorry to hear about your hand, HMQ! Hand injuries are the worst. But you get to learn things like how to make a splint with only one hand, and liquid skin and Krazy Glue, there’s that.

    Hope you heal soon.

  4. Yes please to #coolstorybro. I hope your hand is okay and gets better quickly.

    And if the school had a “code of conduct”, you bet it would be lawyered by these types of guys.

  5. Isn’t this loser supposed to be getting an education? I really hate how these dudes turn almost every situation into sexual hunting ground season. Instead of focusing on what is truly important, he’s more worried about petty crap like dating and getting laid. And why do so many men still not understand what NO means? If somebody tells you that they aren’t interested, you don’t question that…you accept it and MOVE ON. I realize that, like most men, he believes that women owe him sex, but doesn’t he even have a shred of pride or dignity? If you keep hassling somebody to go out with you, and they cave, that does not qualify as a “win” (it means they only went out with you to shut you up, not because of genuine desire). And if they remain steadfast, but you persist with the pressure, that makes you a deranged scumbag stalker. And then he admits he did this shit…with not one ounce of guilt or shame. Who does that?! I mean, he’s not even ashamed for himself. Just having knowledge of the fact that he has to negotiate his way into somebody’s pants should be enough for him to never show his face in public again. I can’t imagine a woman publicly announcing that she was rejected (multiple times, no less). But that brings us back to male privilege, of course. Only a dude would have the audacity to believe that he can bypass the physical attraction factor with bully tactics & mental manipulation.

    HMQ, hope your hand is okay. I’d ask if it is a scrape or a bump, and offer a recommendation for treating it, but then you’d have to type out a response. LOL Take care. 🙂

      • I’m sorry to hear about your hand injury. As you know, I can pretty well relate. I wish you a swift and thorough recovery.

        No need to reply. Save your hand for when you need it most.

    • A lot of these guys are working off fantasy, and if you become the object of their fantasy, their backing off interferes with that fantasy, while their ignoring your efforts to politely reject their advances allows it to progress smoothly – the thrill of the chase!

      Of course if you are more direct and counter aggressive, you get blamed for that, but these delusional dudes don’t really leave you any choice. Women are socialized to be nice, it goes against our grain to be rude. It’s a real catch-22. A main element of my opening my eyes to radical feminism was learning to recognize when I was being groomed (because I was being too polite) and give myself permission to tell these fuckers off, though I tend to do it in writing in some manner.

      • I once had a guy come up behind me on the street about a week ago and he asked me ‘Hey can I talk to you?’
        ‘Hey, can I walk with you?’
        ‘Hey, can I kiss you?’

        Yes, i was worried about my safety but fuck it, NO means NO, but typical man, didn’t hear it.

  6. Hope you are ok HMQ!

    Excellent article, HMQ, it’s the raw material, and Bewilderness, thanks for the reflective article you reference too. Lots of nuances I hadn’t thought about before. The social norm I learned was, “If you say No plainly, the man will be offended and feel aggressive and angry and do something abusive to you verbally or otherwise, so don’t ever say no, always be very apologetic and evasive and vague and delicate.” It’s confrontative, and women do not confront men directly in this way in any society I know of.

    Now women are being asked to say No plainly (well we’re being asked to say Yes plainly but it’s the same thing). It’s a doublesided coin. On the one hand, we are being asked to risk abuse by disregarding a strong social norm. The burden is on us. If we don’t say this we can’t complain later.

    There’s the problem that these words are usually spoken in a private situation, so rape cases become even more a matter of he said she said. As the Cosby case proves all over again, even an army of women saying one thing isn’t enough to outweigh one man saying the other. Sharia law, especially in criminal matters, discounts women witnesses’ testimony, stacking the cards even more disgracefully. See generally, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharia

    On the other hand, the effect of the norm (where if a woman says No plainly she has confronted a man and can expect some form of retaliation) is to remove our capacity to not consent. We are fearful of saying the words. That’s a very important way of coercing sex or other things the male desires. To have it be clear that women will now be saying No or Yes plainly will remove one more subtle coercion.

    So it seems to me it is smart for the authorities to say that women must provide a fairly clear No (requiring a clear Yes is really saying the same thing). I understand it angers and confuses men (like the young guy in coolstorybro) and frightens women. But we women should do it (and when he says “Bitch!” and knocks against us hard on his way out, watch out and move quicker than he does) anyway and in a few years it will be the new norm and there will I hope be a net benefit. We have to struggle for change and expect it won’t be easy or pleasant.

    The big issue here is Consent. But that’s too big a topic to go into here.

    As for a coolstoriesbro article, I suppose we could learn something by analyzing this raw material. As others are saying, is this guy really confused like he says? Does he really not know he’s being a harasser? Is he just complaining because he doesn’t want women to have the power to say No?

    • That is a very good point, Brylliant. Being direct and hostile with rejection is a huge social taboo for women, and men take advantage of this.

      I’ve had a long-time problem with a stalking situation. I tried befriending the guy platonically at one point (huge mistake) but he was completely impossible, controlling, boundary-disrespecting, prurient, dishonest, angry and objectifying. I told him he needed to look elsewhere, four years later he left a poem on my gate about a local guy who was actually jailed for stalking. I published a no-contact letter on my blog, including the guy’s (unusual) name. I hope his sister read it.

  7. Heal up, house mouse. Take care. I’d make you some pasta fagioli if I was there.

    No, he doesn’t want women to have the power to say no, brilliant. It’s just as you said.
    Hence the obfuscation. They like to pretend there’s a magical tone or grouping of words that would make them FINALLY UNDERSTAND “No.” Just like they pretend there’s a magical wardrobe choice and way of walking that would most definitely ward of street harassment. They also pretend there’s a magical cadence and approach a woman can adopt to guarantee a raise or promotion. They can pretend women are just getting these things wrong, hence abuse/sexism (women have only themselves to blame!). When in fact, men will do what they want to do while trying to convince women they’re inadequate or crazy.

    It’s gaslighting…and blaming the victim for systemic sexism.

    • i just watched this video where a man who owns a restaurant doesn’t like hiring women but it turns out he wants to keep the pay down so he has to.

      the comment section is full of men saying never hire women

      Nah, there aint no patriarchy or pay gap!

      thanks for the offer to cook for me. I do need it. My hand is better but I can’t grasp things btween my thumb and index finger.

      I’m taking 600 mg advil every 6 hrs.

      • Whoo! I’ve had repetitive stress injuries before. Advil is good, time to heal is better. Hope you feel better soon.

        So many men deny there’s a pay gap because they’re afraid that if and when push comes to shove, businesses will start to pay women wages to everyone, even men. The alternative is to raise all women’s wages, which businesses won’t see as cost effective. In other words, you can’t expect businesses to do the right thing, so men might have to deal with not being paid more than women — but rather, the same as women. Bummer, am I right, dudes?

        • Resolving the pay gap would require companies to nix any idea of salary negotiation. This only really affects well-educated, relatively well-to-do white collar workers, but you can bet the men bellyaching the most over the pay gap are most likely doing white collar work. Men really hate the idea that they can’t continue to benefit from being more aggressive and being *rewarded* for that aggression. Women who request higher pay are inevitably punished for it.

          Companies could have very strict guidelines for wages and salaries: never giving out raises outside of annual reviews, only giving raises (aside from COLA) to high performers, making at least some attempt to remove human error (aka male and white supremacy) from affecting a worker’s performance review (having it rely on trackable metrics, not how often the manager’s ass has been kissed), giving the same wage/salary to new hires based on experience and education, publishing wage/salary scales or at least handing them over to the government.

          Meanwhile, government institutions and unionized workplaces tend to have a significantly lower pay gap, because those organizations can’t get away with the same haphazard wage policies as private business. It can be done, these companies just don’t want to do it, and they won’t do it until they’re forced to.

          Personally, I’d settle for just knowing how much I’m being paid compared to my peers. In a “free” market, it’s an outrage that I’m not afforded the full knowledge of how much (or little) my company values my work. Even most companies looking for new hires are very cloak and dagger regarding how much they pay. They want to base your pay on your former job’s compensation, and thus the cycle continues.

  8. I love it that it is his THIRD offense and yet he still somehow feels he is the wronged party. Male entitlement knows no bounds, does it? I love the idea for the CoolStoryBro feature.

    House Mouse Queen, I have been a lurker up until now, but I am commenting because I want to thank you for this blog. I used to be a big fan of We Hunted the Mammoth, but it has really gone full SJW at this point and radfems are not welcome. The language police are in full force over there — I was first threatened with a ban for saying that housing prices in San Francisco were “crazy high.” I was apparently ableist scum (even though the comment clearly had nothing to do with mental illness). I stopped commenting after being ganged up upon for saying I was not “cis,” I was a woman, and I did not have “cisprivilege” or “ladybrain.” My comments were all deleted and I was told I would be banned for transphobia if I dared challenge the libfem narrative again.

    So thank you so much for providing a safe space for women to actually talk about the horrendous “manosphere” without having to kowtow to supposed feminists/men in dresses who believe in the redpill idea of ladybrain. Radfems need these spaces desperately in this day and age where transpolitics reigns supreme. Just how did it get to this point where feminists have let men take over the narrative of feminism? How did we let men introduce the idea that porn and prostitution are empowering? How did we let men convince so many of us of ridiculous ideas such as ladybrain and lady penises? (I mean lady penises? WTF?!)

    I hope your hand heals quickly. Just FYI, the maximum recommended dosage for ibuprofen (Advil) is 800mg every 8 hours — that’s the prescription dosage in America. Any higher than that and you risk damaging your stomach lining.

    Thank you again!

      • That’s so nice to hear (not that I would expect any differently). I still enjoy most of the posts at WHTM because David does a good job of skewering the manosphere, but it is not a safe space to comment or discuss for radfems. I tried to be a good liberal feminist for a long time, but their embrace of the idea of ladybrain is what did it for me. That is so anathema to what a feminist should stand for — it is exactly what we are fighting against, and what we have been fighting against!

        Your blog was my first real exposure to modern radical feminism and was such a breath of fresh air! Anyway, thank you, and heal quickly!

        • Oh shit, I’m a mammoth refugee too, rafemconvert. You missed the mass exodus of rad fems by almost a year or so? Not sure now.

          I think the first sin I committed over there was using the word “crazy” in a non-diagnostic way. People jumped up my ass.
          Then I watched as other posters, many radfems, were called TERFs and “cis.” I was a bit confused but later realized that the reason some posters got totally pissed at some of us for talking about things like street harassment was because they were men posting under women names, and apparently passing as a woman on the street and getting harassed for it is a privilege we should be grateful for.
          In time, I noticed women’s issues could only be discussed freely when certain people were absent. Otherwise, all conversations had to be redirected to trans women.
          Oh sure, it was a great place to kick trolls of the duderbro and MRA variety — and that was super fun, don’t get me wrong. But if MRAs weren’t the topic, well, eesssh.

        • Yeah, I gave up on WHTM a couple of months ago for the same issue after I was swiftly (though relatively politely) given a load of that slippery queer theory pomo crap after daring to say that we’d all be better off without gender. That Dave can on the one hand subtitle it “the new misogyny, tracked and mocked” and make fun of men who are horrible to women BECAUSE WE HAVE VAGINAS and yet on the other hand embrace the misogynist gender/ladybrain transpolitics that seek to ERASE the fact that VAGINAS MATTER is just truly mind boggling. And most of the what seem to me very young commentariat would defend that irreconcilable contradiction to their SJW deaths. I am so sick of the bullshit.

          Definitely keep #coolstorybro. It’s fun. Hope your hand gets better fast.

      • P.S., I’m sorry, you’re taking the same total dose, 2400 mg, as you would if you took 800 mg every 8 hours. That was a major brain fail. I’ve been overworked this week and my brain is clearly overtaxed! How embarrassing…

    • My favorite taco place has the word “Loco” in their name. I wonder if anyone has accused them of being ableist? LOL!

      It’s a fun to go witness the freak show in the comment section. I haven’t done that for a while, I may have to look at it, again, sometime. Although, I wonder how much longer I’ll be able to keep my sense of humor about this latest male-take over. The dudes are not just taking over feminism, they are taking US over when they claim to be us. It’s pretty scary to see things like that clip of the Dr. Drew Show with Ben Shapiro being Vulcan-death gripped by a gigantic, hairy tranny because he was referred to as “him.” And, all the panelists, including the women are scared to call him a him!

      • LOL. The way you write is great.

        Vulcan death grip. LOL

        Yes, my hand is slowly getting better. I can type easier but still can’t grip things.

        I found one of my mouse friends sitting on my skirt at 5 am. I draped my skirt over my bike. I was like ‘whaddya doin up there little one?’

        She just looked at me and climbed down face first.

        I call her Black Nose b/c she has a little black patch on her nose.

        • When I had repetitive motion injury a long, long time ago, I found that one of those carpal tunnel braces with the metal piece helped a lot. I just wore it at night and it helps keep the wrist straight instead of it curling up in pain while you sleep!

          That’s a cute story about the mouse.

          I have a little family of wrens living right outside my door. I’ve been having a lot of fun watching them for the past few days since the babies hatched.

      • To womanofthewoods, Mortadella, and Cassandra:

        I’m so glad I’m not the only one! Well, actually I guess I’m not — I wish that hadn’t happened to anyone and I wish the site allowed for actual productive conversation instead of nothing but trans-pandering (trandering?) and language policing. I understand the desire to be sensitive and not want to hurt people, but the SJW thing takes it to the point where you can’t say *anything* without being offensive.

        And you know, radical feminism needs to be offensive sometimes because that is what shakes the status quo and gets people thinking. You can’t always play “nice” with everyone when you are trying to liberate half the world’s population.

        Womanofthewoods, did you see the Salon article on the Shapiro nonsense? It is the most biased garbage in the world, painting the aggressor (the Vulcan death pincher) as the poor, sympathetic victim. It’s vile.

        I feel like I am derailing this thread, and I am maybe breaking a rule in doing so, so I should probably stop. Sorry HMQ. 🙂 It’s nice to meet everyone, and thanks for the kind welcome.

        • I don’t think radical feminism needs to be offensive so much as radical feminists need to not have to worry about being offensive when we write about reality. We need to not do that internal editing thing we’ve been trained to do. We need less to be offensive than to stop going out of our way to be nice.

        • I just read the Salon article, RFC. The comments are pretty interesting, too.

          I’ve noticed a lot recently in the media that it seems to be okay to hurt someone really badly, inordinately badly! – like the football player punching a woman in the face, then claiming she called him a name he didn’t like (and we have to take his word for this, of course), or a mob going after a woman and her children and threatening to rape and murder them, running them out of their home for allegedly making a comment that someone didn’t like – and this Dr. Drew Show example is very similar. Shapiro says something the dudebro doesn’t like so the he assaults and threatens him and everybody just sits there, legs all crossed and comfy-cozy like and agree that Shapiro is in the wrong for saying something “provocative.” Calling a man “sir” or “he” or “him” is now “provocative.” So, Shapiro was “asking for it” and got what he deserved.

          I keep remembering something that Shere Hite reportedlly said after she published her books and upset the liberal dudes’ sex free-for-all by revealing through surveys that most women do not enjoy PIV sex. She said that the we had entered a “new McCarthyite period.” I think she said this back in the 1980s or ’90s right before she left the country and renounced her citizenship because her life here had been made so miserable.

          I think back through all my years, back to the age of about 12-years, which is when men and boys and sometimes girls started calling me all kinds of filthy, dirty, insinuating and sexualizing “provocative” names. I’ve heard the most vile things from men, excluding all the threats and assaults, an yet none of this has never in the eyes of anyone at all given me the right to assault someone. On the contrary, I was blamed for every one of those insults and on a deeply subconscious level, I even blamed myself for many, many years.

          Again, the degree of entitlement involved in this business of assaulting someone who says something you don’t like is phenomenal – especially from the perspective of those of us who have never known anything near that level of social privilege.

          Re: WHTM. I never participated there. I became highly suspicious of the site’s owner when he capitalized on the Elliot Rodger mass murder to do a big donation drive. That REALLY bothered me. I, also, really hate word policing – it just downright pisses me off. (We had some dudes in pink fluff stop by here and try to word police us several months ago. They seemed amazed that all their manipulations failed here. But, they failed because HMQ keeps this a safe site for women – of course, meaning actual women.) That word policing stuff has gotten way out of hand even on regular forums about ordinary, day-to-day subjects. They have this thing now called “tone policing,” for instance. And, apparently I always have the wrong tone. Apparently, I am a highly offensive person. But, of course, all you have to do to be offensive these days is look at something and blurt out the truth about it. Truly, I am concerned about this new promotion of delusion and the eschewing of common reality. It’s dangerous – like 1984 by George Orwell kind of dangerous.

          • Sorry for the derail, House Mouse. Obviously some of us need to start a WHtM refugee blog. Though I bet many of us experienced our peak trans moments there. Again, apologies:


            That place started to resemble a conservative joke writer’s idea of what really lefty liberals behave like (if there was such a thing as a conservative joke writer who specialized in satire). A few times I left a post, then the next day there’d be angry posters yelling at my word choices. In the beginning, like a dumb-ass, I’d apologize. Then I realized these people seemed to be having a contest in who can be the most tolerant of everything while behaving in the most intolerant ways possible. I’ve seen the following there:

            People being scolded for using psychological lingo (it was a sin to recognize an actual pathology for what it is and not a lifestyle choice).
            People being scolded for admitting they don’t like certain kinks.
            People being scolded for speculating on the sex of concern trolls who are obviously MRA males trying to pass themselves off as women (that was too much like trans exclusion for some fucking reason).
            People being scolded for asking what “cis” and “TERF” mean.
            Women being scolded for talking about womens’ issues whenever a trans person was present.

            There were a lot of personal confessions going on there — and the people who did it the most were the most judgmental of the bunch.
            Then there were the folks who used waaaay too many descriptors to introduce themselves, like this:

            “Hi everyone! I’m a cis/queer/bi/occassionally pan sexual who is the mother of two and lives with my spouse in Portand.”

            Oh, and if you posted something like, “Women don’t usually say things like that,” sooner or later someone would post a version of, “Hey, some women have penises, OK? Just say’in.”

            That was my first exposure to pomo bullshit.

            One time, I pointed out that violence against trans women was committed by homophobic males, and this dude kept ignoring my point and reposted at least three times that women are responsible for violence against trans.

            Then I realized I don’t hate myself enough to keep engaging there and left for good.

          • “Women don’t usually say things like that,” sooner or later someone would post a version of, “Hey, some women have penises, OK? Just say’in.”

            I love it when trans women or their allies accidentally let it slip that they don’t think trans women are women. If they did, when they see a comment like that, they’d just think, yes, women don’t say things like that. But since they understand the implication that trans women do, indeed, say things like that because they’re men and often extremely misogynistic, they have to swoop in to remind you that some “women” are men.

            A few weeks ago, I saw a trans activist claim that misandry is a form of “transmisogyny”, and that certainly is correct, and, thank you, trans activist for admitting that you think trans women are men.

        • It’s been truly baffling to me to see organizations on the far left, such as socialist, communist, and anarchist groups, cater so much to trans ideology. It isn’t that they accept trans people and want to include them; they’ve apparently fallen completely for the idea that no one is allowed to notice a difference between trans women and women with the usual implication that sex-based oppression doesn’t exist, and women have no right to space away from males. And even these groups couch this “inclusion” as an issue of politeness. Since when are radical leftists concerned with being polite?

          I understand why liberals who cater to trans ideology see it as an issue of politeness. Everyone is participating in this mass ass-patting where everyone knows trans women aren’t women, but no one’s allowed to hurt their feelings, and, when women fail to go along with this, liberals get angry because it’s women’s job to be nice and accommodating. I’ve seen trans allies explicitly state that this is an issue of “niceness”.

          I don’t really consider myself a socialist, communist, or anarchist, but I find those ideologies interesting, and I have a lot of respect for them. One thing that’s struck me about most proponents of these ideas is that they’re usually not afraid to tackle big problems even, or especially, if it makes people uncomfortable. But I guess if those people who are uncomfortable are males who identify as women, suddenly discussion is off limits because hurt feelz.

  9. I don’t think it’s possible to wipe out thousands of years of male entitlement or negate their apparently innate joy at harming women and girls and virtually anyone or anything smaller than themselves. All we can do at this point is have a few rules – like Title IX – which simply try to guarantee that girls and women have the same rights to a few basic necessities of life (in this case, education) as males. This man here just can’t understand why he’s not allowed to harm a girl or woman, if fact, he doesn’t even see his victim as a person, at all. She is an opportunity and why should she have the right to do this or that ordinary human thing, when he is denied his innate entitlement to harm her?! This is is the male perspective, or at least, a good example of how the world looks from their point of view.

    Sometimes I try to look at the world from their perspective. I was watching an old Jack Benny movie last night (for about 20 minutes because it was perfectly awful) and it was nothing but a bunch of men doing important things and Jack clowning around, but I noticed the male perspective of the handful of female characters and I could see that they were nothing but cows in fancy clothes, who have no opportunities to do what men do and, according to the men, no desire to do anything except be cattle in fancy clothes. This is the male perspective. The male doesn’t understand why he can’t do whatever he likes to the cattle, at least, if no other man has yet claimed that cow and burned his brand into her side, then why can’t he do whatever he wants?

    They simply do not understand that we are human beings and there is a perfectly good reason for this lack of understanding: THEY are not human.

  10. Sorry here I go derailing again…but I see that Dean Esmay has resigned from AVFM abruptly. The official story at the site is that it’s for his health. On his twitter Esmay says that “… it’s never a good idea to air philosophical and personal conflicts publicly…” and gives no details.

    Esmay started out at AVFM as a real human being, I thought, but about a year or so ago his posts became extremely hateful. There was a hardened maliciousness about the way, every time he wrote about a woman, he had to label her as contemptible or disgusting or abusive or a hate-mongering bigot.

    Maybe he figured out what an unhealthy person he was becoming, and refused to continue on this path, which put him in conflict with the hateful ethos of the site.

    • I’m guessing he had a fall out with Elam. There’s no money at AVFM anymore. AVFM is done. The site and the people that run it are under Elam’s thumb and the fact is, the site has been rightly crucified in the mass media for the hate site it is. The only people who go there are a few MRA’s who stroke Elam’s ego desperately trying not to get banned at the slightest disagreement and people like me who love to laugh and write about the carnage. They’re not organized. They aren’t activists. They’re simply hate mongering misogynists.

      I know I just described the entire Manosphere but just b/c AVFM gets a decent amount of traffic doesn’t make it popular. It just means it gets a decent amount of hits. Esmay and anyone associated with AVFM is never going to go anywhere. AVFM follows ppl around like a bad odour.


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