UPDATE: Dean Esmay leaves AVFM and they claim it’s amicable but also say Dean wants to take his ‘activism’ in another direction and has health issues. Keep an eye out for why he really split.
Poor, white males and their racist terrorists who commit murder. That’s what the reaction of MRA’s and other right wing idiots has been like since Dylann Roof shot up a church and killed 9 people.
‘Only a fourth to a third of people in the South owned even one slave. Yet every White person is treated as if they had a slave owning ancestor.’~Dylann Roof
‘What gets me about your argument is that it (sic) appear to interpret the North as good, South as bad when that in nowhere a complete picture.’ ~Paul Elam
‘They are always thinking about the fact that they are black. This is part of the reason they get offended so easily.’~Dylann Roof
‘Today’s people love to be offended. Their victim mentality is astonishing. Sure 9 black people were murdered, but that does not give right to use such heinous atrocities to exploit for political gain and infringement.’ mgtowman (AVFM)
‘Black folks who the condemn the Confederate flag over slavery are hypocrites.’~AlfromBayShore AVFM
‘People that assign malice to the south remind me of atheists who assign malice to Christians by citing the Crusades. It’s true, Christians have killed in the name of Christ, and Muslims kill in the name of Allah. But let’s look at everyone to get some proportion.’~Joe Buck AVFM
They fought to save the union, not for black americans.
Elam’s gone off his rocker again in denying the Civil war was about slavery and yelling that African Americans should stop feeling revulsion about the Confederate flag because it’s only symbolizing ‘facts.’ He cites Fox News in his 2-source rant about those pesky ‘civil rights ‘activists” and their desire to shame him (he’s from Texas).
You know who else denies this reality? Gavin McInnes and of course Stormfront, the white nationalist website. (I won’t link that here)
Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery—the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. These products are peculiar to the climate verging on the tropical regions, and by an imperious law of nature, none but the black race can bear exposure to the tropical sun.
The issue here is Paul’s ego. He’s a white male who’s placing his masculinity into a fucking flag because in his mind it represents white male power and ‘freedom.’ Hey, that’s sorta like White Nationalists! Even his own commenters get what he’s doing:
‘This is avfm, so perhaps an appropriate metaphor would be to cast the South in the role of todays’s men, and the battle flag of the confederacy as the mrm.’ ~billybob AVFM
Now for Elam’s flimsy little defenses of the flag which he calls ‘opinions about his intellectual property’:
It can be summed up thus:
Some men in the North were bad too.
‘I hate the sight of the American flag.’~Dylann Roof
‘The American Flag would seem a much more logical choice given that there has been a thousand times more atrocities committed while waving it.’~Paul Elam
That’s it folks. Slavery in the South, in which the US fought a Civil war over, the Confederate flag being its most visible symbol, wasn’t really that bad because a few white men in the North thought slavery was great, or something.
‘I have no desire to blot out the artifacts of our history in order to offer meaningless appeasement to people who could be working on real, more meaningful problems than just choosing to be offended.’
Like the hordes of white males who’ve made endless videos on Youtube as a response to yet another white male going on a racist, terrorist shooting spree, Elam wasn’t going to be outdone.
The Confederate Flag, he says, is really about
‘the ending of slavery and subsequent efforts to keep the hope of freedom alive.’
WTF? Who’s freedom would that be?
‘I do not know what motivated a madman to commit those horrific acts in South Carolina. I just know that it wasn’t a flag that pulled the trigger.’~Paul Elam
‘So what drove his rage? We will never know.’ ~brxman AVFM
‘I wish with a passion that niggers were treated terribly throughout history…‘ ~Dylann Roof
A few MRA’s weren’t going to stroke Elam’s fragile white male southern pride. They attempted to educate him but were quickly banned.
Rule #1 at AVFM: You are not allowed to question or disagree with Elam when he shows the world what an insensitive bigoted asswipe he really is.
Here’s how it went down (thank you screen cap software) CLICK TO ENLARGE IMAGES TO FULL SIZE:
The MRA’s sure know how to appease Elam before disagreeing with him:
‘If you don’t like what somebody is saying, don’t listen to them. Or, better yet, argue back with better logic and reason. More speech is always better than censorship.’ ~Mod David King at AVFM
Another MRA very carefully disagrees with Paul and asks a few questions
Dean Esmay steps in to save Paul and scream obscenities at the commenter. You cannot disagree with Paul.
Elam begs, in his own way, for the ban and says we shouldn’t be outraged at a white male killing 9 African Americans because it has nothing to do with racism. Elam is saying the same bigoted shit as white men on Youtube making videos saying we should look at everything else but white male racism and entitlement.
Sue McCarley steps in. She wants the ‘warned’ commenter to submit to Elam by assigning her own meaning to Elam’s rant. She understands that Elam is masculinizing the flag and taking it as a slight to his poor manhood:
He gets banned again, for the final time for refusing to go along with Elam. Elam finally shows he knows what censorship is when it concerns blocking but can’t figure it out when private establishments either kick out or don’t want to host his misogynist friends.
Elam responds with some cover story about what the Civil War was really about (not really slavery) forgetting the premise of his article and dismissing African Americans and other civil rights activists.
Lynching is really women’s fault says AVFMer keen to minimize Elam’s bigotry:
Elam admits he doesn’t care about how African Americans feel. He’s all about facts and doesn’t give a shit about racism. Elam tells anyone who doesn’t like it, and by extension black people, to stuff it. These comments from Silvermane are being erased as I type by Elam.
I’m betting that the commenter was banned because Elam noticed I upvoted their comment. It’s pure projection. I’m glad I screencapped them since Elam is throwing them in the bin and erasing them from sight.
The rest of the comment section is MRA’s circlejerking about wars and other human atrocities as if they themselves are such manly men for doing so. The biggest battles these guys have ever fought were from behind a computer with a feminist on Twitter while in mom’s basement.
I love watching Paul flip flop:
‘The South did not simply start the war “just” over slavery, but soverignty as well.’~Paul Elam can’t spell
‘I agree totally that the south seceded over slavery, and little to nothing else, but as abhorrent as that institution was at the time it was indeed a state’s right, including states that did not secede.’~ Paul Elam
‘What I don’t think is semantics, though, is the idea that the north went to war over slavery. It didn’t. The north went to war over control of the south to maintain forced inclusion in the union — and nothing else. Not banking laws, and not slavery.’~Paul Elam
If you’re wondering about the links between white nationalist orgs and Paul Elam, there are connections. Elam is a fan of RamzPaul, a member of the white nationalist group American Renaissance where the Texas based Earl Holt III hangs out. Earl Holt III is the leader of the Texas based Council of Conservative Citizens that played a major role in radicalizing Dylann Roof. If you look at Ramzpaul’s video on Roof, you can see some Manosphere dudes there. It’s not a great surprise that the men’s rights movement overlaps with white nationalist movements. My friend from HailtotheGynocracy wrote about it extensively.
As a personal experience, when I attended University in Boston I came into contact with a southern dude who hung up Confederate flags in his dorm room. I listened to him talk for the first time and he wasn’t very bright. What an ass to bring that flag to Boston while attending Uni with several African Americans. He didn’t last at Uni and ended up leaving before the end of the first semester.
In the past week, since Roof’s racist killing spree, many articles are being published about the fact that the Civil War and the flag were about slavery because the right wing southern pride dudes are coming out of the woodwork.
Historian will school you:
And finally, here’s a song that encapsulates Paul Elam’s thinking: