Twenty Years On

If you find yourself not knowing much about Srebrenica, it’s ok, I didn’t know much either. I was 24 years old and pretty ignorant of world politics at that age. I knew about the war in Yugoslavia but it was reduced to sound bites and magazine covers to the American public. There were the good guys and the bad guys.

A Short Intro on Srebrenica

Srebrenica was designated a ‘safe space’ for Bosnian muslim refugees and protected by a tiny UN peacekeeping force during the Bosnian War. The safe space of Srebrenica was overtaken by the Serbian army in July of 1995, the women and men separated, and the men executed and buried in mass graves. The numbers of men executed are argued about as is their manner of death. Some say 2,000 and others say 8,000 men were killed. I won’t address these questions in this post. I will just cover main issues.

Here’s a video explaining what happened in Srebrenica. It was made by Norwegians and is in English. It’s hard to watch.

AVFM Blames Srebrenica Executions on Feminism

AVFM’s Arne Hoffman wrote an article about Srebenica blaming the UN and feminists for the atrocities that occurred there. He claims the UN has a gynocentric mandate which allowed the Serbian Army to massacre the men who were deliberately separated from the women and children at Srebrenica.

‘Women, children and the elderly had been allowed to flee through the UN convoys; adult men from the civilian population had been left back in the city – despite the people in charge having been fully aware that, in such cases, it was almost always the male population murdered en masse.’~Arne Hoffman

Let me make my position clear so that people can understand where I’m coming from.

I believe the systematic murder of Bosnian muslim men occurred. They were indeed separated from the women, children and elderly and then executed by Mladic. Yes, they were.

We can debate why Srebrenica happened for years. Yugoslavia’s roots of conflict between its ethnicities go deep. Very deep. I am only writing this post to show MRA’s like Hoffman that there is no UN feminist gynocratic policy that either allowed or mandated the executions.

I researched Srebrenica and the Yugoslav Civil war and saw no such feminist mandate. None. UN Resolution 819 addressed Srebrenica and other so called ‘safe areas’ in Bosnia. A Dutch peace force named UNPROFOR was responsible for protecting the Bosnians but they couldn’t. The force was too small and not organized at any level.

It is true that many men were executed and the majority of women were not (they were raped, impregnated, and tortured instead) but not due to some UN feminist mandate. The UN could never defend Srebrenica and they knew it so when the Serbs started shelling the enclave, giving gifts to the Dutch commander, and then capturing some of the UN Dutch peackeepers, the Serbs easily walked in.

Let me say from here on out that murdering people is wrong, whether men or women. However, Arne Hoffman is indicting some boogeyman feminist policy that had nothing to do with Srebrenica. There are some deep questions around the Serbian’s justifications for executing the Srebrenica men which they claim were fighters under Naser Oric who, prior to Srebrenica, were raiding Serb villages and murdering Serbs from within the ‘safe space.’ There is also speculation about weapon shipments to the Bosnian muslim enclave in order to kill Serbs in neighbouring villages.

The truth of this Civil War has been coming out slowly over these 20 years. In my personal opinion there were massacres on all sides but ultimately the breakup of Yugoslavia was heavily influenced by Western forces and capitalists who wanted to stoke the ethnic tensions of each population using the backdrop of harsh economic conditions that existed in the 80’s.

Gender, Masculinity and War

Women on the whole did not actively fight in this Civil war. It was the ‘sons’ fighting each other while rich men in power were busy trying to get their piece of the power pie. This is patriarchal greed fellas. This is a bunch of men in every ethnic camp on every level wanting power over anything they could get their hands on. Indeed, what if the average man refused to pick up weapons against his neighbour and refused to fight?

Take a look this Serb soldier describing how his manhood depended on him picking up arms against his neighbours. You’ll see the effect of gender written all over every man, on all sides. They were the ‘sons’ of Yugoslavia, dedicated to masculinity.

So when Hoffman and AVFM whine that feminism is responsible for the death of the men in Srebrenica, I just want to put a book in front of them.  They wouldn’t read it though. Better still, how about the 400 page NIOD report? Maybe the 1999 report by the UN? Too complex for them. They need simple themes like ‘women’s selfish nature was responsible for execution of men.’

How the fuck can this be blamed on feminism? It can’t, of course. MRA’s will use any tragedy to justify their hatred of women and write long screeds about non-existent ‘feminist policies’ to inject into any situation in order to avoid serious analysis. It’s a shortcut to thinking for MRA’s. They seem incapable of analyzing a situation and wrapping it in any context. Context is a foreign thing to them.

Could the UN have done more to protect the ‘safe’ areas? Of course. Did some of the Dutchbat peacekeepers know what General Mladic was doing when he separated the men from the women? Yes. Were they powerless to stop it? Yes.

Whenever I wade into the Manosphere I find myself asking these questions: ‘Why do MRA’s make such silly assertions? What are they getting out of this?’ We can all speculate on why MRA’s make such stupid claims. My guess is that they like to emotionally rile each other up. One makes a silly remark and then the next guy has to come up with something more outrageous. Plus, the internet allows them to pile up and try to outdo each other. This is why the Manosphere is monitored by the SPLC and other organizations. It’s easy to imagine some guy getting radicalized by going to the Manosphere because it’s already happened.

I’ll leave you with a quote by a woman from Bosnia who is part of a feminist organization trying to help people heal and rebuild their lives.

‘Women were not the makers of the war and were not at the negotiating table when the conflict stopped. But they were the first ones to cross imaginary and imposed borders and began working on rebuilding the country inside out,”’ ~ Taida Horozovic

There’s the feminist influence fellas.

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13 thoughts on “Twenty Years On

  1. Thank you for this! I need to read it again but just wanted to drop this comment: it has become clear to me over the years of reading MRA revisionist histories, that they start by assuming it’s feminists fault, whatever the topic is and how bizarre this may seem to common sense, and then they expend all their intellectual energy (which ain’t much) in expounding any halfassed connection between one and the other they can invent. The prime example of this is “proxy violence”, the laughable reason often given for why men kill each other. The woman doesn’t have to have arranged it or even wanted it. Her very existence provokes violence in men, so almost any crime can be laid at the feet of “violent women”. The shrinks could have a field day with this stuff.

    The truth is, MRAs, when you walk around in life nursing a humongous grudge against women, you’ll see them behind everything bad that happens to you or other men. You can’t, won’t see that it is men committing the crimes, men seething with rage, men who aren’t thinking straight. This serious warped thinking affects every area of social life and is called misogyny.

  2. It’s also just really hypocritical since MRAs go by the mandate that it’s the job of men to protect women and children. They’ll typically use this as an example of why men are super great and why women need them. It’s apparently lost on them that men are protecting us from other men and that, traditionally, in return for that protection, women are expected to let our “protectors” rape us and our children. (Also, the “women and children first” mantra you’ll see in the media is a lie. For the most part, in a crisis, men leave the women and children to die first: in shipwrecks, in famine, in times of war.)

    So, the UN negotiating safe passage for some of the women and children who would otherwise have been raped and tortured by Serb war criminals is exactly what they were supposed to do according to the MRA mindset and according to the lies they tell themselves and to others about men prioritizing women and children, which they almost never do in real life.

  3. You ask very reasonably how this can be blamed on feminism. I would answer that there are at least 6 reasons this is blamed on feminism in the inflammatory AVFM article:

    1. AVFM anticipated that writing any kind of silly BS attacking feminism for no reason was worth the further damage to their already-nonexistent credibility, because the few blogs calling them on it would have to waste a lot of time looking for some actual reason for the attack. In truth, there was no reason, it was just a moronic provocation designed to waste our time and gynergy.

    2.AVFM is throwing out, as a matter of low-rent propaganda techniques, a lot of shit against feminists in hopes that it will leave a stain in the minds of casual readers. I expect that next feminists will be blamed for the Twin Towers bombings. In fact I’m appalled that AVFM has fallen down on the job on that one. It’s AVFM’s only real reason for existence and lately it has been focusing far too much on boring father’s rights and circumcision and such.

    3.Clickbait. Nice headline, no content. No worries, alot of people just read the clickbait and assume there is some content.

    4. Catering to AVFM youmadbro bigots who need a regular fix of false revelations about evul feminists.

    5. The author, Arne Hoffmann, is a genuwine bigot of bigolicious proportions who feels an intense burning inner need to blame feminists for everything and has found a blog that will indulge his very sincere bigotry.

    And finally:

    6. Men will say anything to avoid responsibility for their murderousness, at least AVFM is encouraging that perception.

  4. One gets the feeling that the author advocates that women (not the children) should have stayed in solidarity with the men and committed suicide just to even out the stats. But the UN Report show clearly that the men at Srbenica were raiding and killing Serb villages and laundering weapons. Women weren’t combatants, they were civilians, but that’s not true regarding some or all of the men.

    In any case the rape and torture of women in war was hideouslyevident during this conflict.

    Anyone interested in the real history of women in this conflict is urged to read Catherine MacKinnon, “Are Women Human”? Part Three, “Through the Bosnian Lens”. Her Chapter 22 in this Part is an absolutely frightful look at “Genocide’s Sexuality”. I thank my stars for Professor MacKinnon for having the strength to look at these atrocities committed by men and write about this.

    • I didn’t know MacKinnon wrote about the women in Yugoslavia during the war. I am aware that all sides of the war were raping and torturing women. I am also aware, as you state, that the raids were being conducted right out of the ‘safe area’ and that there were black flights of arms given to the Bosniaks in order to murder, rape and pillage the surrounding Serb towns.

  5. Oh, they are getting desperate now. Trying to divert everyone’s attention away from Paulie’s recent showing of ass, regarding the whole confederate flag debacle.

    So when Hoffman and AVFM whine that feminism is responsible for the death of the men in Srebrenica, I just want to put a book in front of them. They wouldn’t read it though.

    Yes, they wouldn’t read it because they already know that they are spewing a load of bunk. All part of the plan. Misogyny is big business, and it helps keep uppity women in our place (or so they wish). Not this one, that’s for sure. 😉

    • You know, if you want to read the most fascinating piece on the killings at Srebrenica the NIOD report I linked in this piece is fucking awesome. It’s quite long but well worth at least a chapter.

      It breaks down the intelligence that was available to all sides. I am convinced the higher ups knew exactly what was going to happen as I am that Dutchbat peacekeepers knew too. Hell, General Mladic told them he was going to take Srebrenica weeks earlier.

      • It’s quite long […]

        And I have a very short attention span…so I’ll just take your word for it. 🙂

        Also, it’s probably beyond my realm of understanding (too much technical jargon), as I only have a 7th grade education. Well, really, not even that much. I was a very sick kid (pneumonia twice, constant ear infections, colds, the flu, etc.), so I was absent a lot. Having undiagnosed aspergers didn’t help either. My learning style is different from the average person, so a traditional classroom setting didn’t really work for me. I’m pretty much self-taught, but I’m missing a lot of the basics (in addition to the more advanced subjects). I try to learn as much as I can, but my ability to concentrate has decreased significantly over the years. Very annoying.

        TL;DR…. Dumb it down for me. LOL

        • I was just like you. I mean, JUST LIKE YOU. I also suffered through my entire youth with ear infections, throat infections, scarlet fever, and I almost died of pneumonia when I was 19. By the time I went to the hospital I had an O2 level of 60.

          I was slowly dying.

          I was hospitalized for 2 weeks, iv antibiotics, constant oxygen etc. steroids etc.

          I had my tonsils out at 15 when they should’ve been taken out when I was 5 or 6. That operation was horrible.

          In my later life the infections slowed down.

          These days I can usually fight off an infection but if it goes to my lungs I go right away to the doctor and get antibiotics.

          So I’ll basically explain it here. The report is saying the UN sucks when it comes to gathering intelligence and that they should change this and not rely on the western powers.

          The report quietly accuses the main intelligence agencies, namely the US, of not sharing vital information with the UN to prevent Srebrenica.

          It also indicts the Bosnian Muslim units for not telling the UN what they knew about the coming attack and then also saying, hinting, that the Muslims knew about it but wanted it to happen so they could get NATO on their side to bomb the shit out of the Serb army afterward, which DID happen.

          There is a very good documentary by the Dutch on the peacekeepers sent by them. They say the Dutchbat commander and even the lower peacekeepers knew the muslim men would be executed as it was standard practice in that civil war to do this on all sides.

          Here’s the first part of the talk.

          • The first time I got pneumonia was when i was about 5 years old, I think, and it was the worst (2nd time was less severe). We were visiting my grandmother, and I passed out on her bed, and nobody could wake me up. I was in a coma for a few days because my temperature had gotten so high. The hospital packed me in ice and put me under a croup tent. I had my tonsils removed too, when I was about 9. That was pretty painful. Ripped my stitches a bit from throwing up so much (they used gas to sedate me, and it made me very nauseous). Didn’t seem to help much…I recall catching another virus just a few months later. LOL

            These days, I consider myself pretty healthy; I haven’t caught anything in over a decade. Got some pretty annoying allergies though, but I suspect that the constant nasal congestion may have something to do with poor dental health. There are no decent programs here to get help with that, unless you’re under 18 or a veteran. I think the latter requirement is interesting, since it automatically bars most women from receiving any type of assistance.

            Never had scarlet fever, but I’ve heard it’s horrible. Glad you powered through it. 🙂

          • Do you attribute your better health to less stress? I know I do. I do my own thing and take my time and find it helps my health.

            Scarlet fever is horrible. At first nobody knew what it was and I got terribly ill until my parents took me to the Dr and we found out.

            My entire belly was red with little bumps

          • I don’t know if I would attribute it to less stress, but I do feel better since I eliminated certain toxic people from my life.

            I’ve decided to credit it to the Pluto transit to my 6th house, which began about the same time I started to feel better and make some big changes to my way of life. It takes Pluto about 248 years to make it’s way around the entire zodiac wheel, so through an entire lifetime, most people will only experience about 3-4 house transits from Pluto. The 6th house is, among other things, the house of health. Pluto is all about major transformations; permanent ones. It stays in each house for about 20-22 years, so I still have about 10-12 more years of this influence (perhaps longer, since it is currently in retrograde).

  6. Just wondering if these ass hats are going to try to blame the horrific rapes on feminism, too? Pretty sure that wasn’t part of the ‘feminist agenda’. Of course, it is entirely possible that I am feministing rong.

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