UPDATED: Vinczer Exposes Site Security of AVFM With a Whammy of an Indictment Against Boozer and Embezzler Paul Elam

UPDATE:
Paul Elam released a recording of a private Skype call between himself and Attilla. He’s trying to cover his ass. You can hear poor Attilla trying to suck up to Overlord Elam, the real con artist here.

 

If you didn’t understand parts of the conversation, I’ll clear them up for you. Elam is accusing Attilla of stiffing Al Martin and Tanveer Ahmed. Tanveer Ahmed is the Australian psychiatrist who wrote a misogynist piece in one of Aus’s major papers. He got fired from White Ribbon, a DV charity, and ran right into the arms of Elam. I don’t know what Ahmed has on Elam but be on the lookout for some major shit in the future.

I left a comment on the video about Paul’s trip to Italy while lying to his fanbois. He quickly erased it. LOL

UPDATE 2:

Seems Vinczer has taken to Twitter posting Skype chat logs. I can’t make out what the big deal is here, except you do get to see the butthurt that ensues whenever someone leaves a negative comment on AVFM and how the hive drones all swarm around Elam to protect him from critical comments. The mass media exposes Rawstory and Buzzfeed did on Elam really put a few roids on him.

The second thing I noticed about these logs is how much time they have to just wank around on Skype and how they all kiss each others ass as if they’re accomplishing something.

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There’s a massive manfight going on between Attilla Vinczer and Paul Elam. Before Elam could erase these tweets, I captured them.

Elam v AttillaAttilla exposed a weak link in Elam’s AVFM site security and published this long expose. I bet the dudes got quite the surprise when they found this on the site. It talks about Elam’s alcoholism, mismanagement and embezzling of money, horrible interpersonal skills, etc. Turns out Elam took funds so he and his gf could go to Italy while Elam was publicly flogging his audience with cries of poverty.

INNARDS OF PAUL ELAM & AVFM EXPOSED

This is just the tip of the iceberg, there will be full disclosure to follow. Any journalists interested in obtaining hard evidence about the improprieties found within the innards of AVFM, harming others, can contact me directly at alvhun@aol.com.

SPECIAL BULLETIN – Note, posting this article is intended to setting the record straight serving no other improper purpose.

Regrettably the hasty action of Paul Elam, has resulted in gross misinformation being disseminated on the net, designed to cause harm and deflect attention to the truth. This libelour misinformation was published by the CEO of AVFM Paul Elam, which needs to be clarified and fully fleshed out.

It is with deep regret that as a consequence of Paul Elam making certain private matters public and the threats made against me has resulted in my need to respond, publicly. I will continue to react in this manner, until the public attack against me ceases.

Have a read and you decide who is the thief, the cheat, the con artist, who engages in smoke and mirrors refusing to be transparent with handling the massive amount of money donated to AVFM CEO, Paul Elam who has full control thereof? This unabashed maniac is harming the MRM and the many hard working MRAs with constant vitriolic battles started by AVFM CEO, Paul Elam?

What fool, would publish a document that serves no other purpose than to harm others and the MRM? Is this the kind of person and organization you want leading the MRM? Many have stopped funding A Voice For Men for good reason, an organization that is arguably, insolvent. Daily readership is down by 75% a clear indication of the damage that has been caused by the CEO and the so called 4 executives therein. This man is clearly unhinged and wreckless.

I have observed this organization, AVFM, led by CEO Paul Elam, dong things that are in my opinion immoral, unethical and outright criminal. To fight for the much needed rights of men and boys, should never include hurting others along this difficult path. They are harming people and harming men and boys they claim to be helping. The reckless behaviour of Paul Elam, the founder, and now CEO of AVFM LLB is akin to a cult leader, with followers who may be oblivious to what they are being drawn into. Good people can be manipulated by such a cult leader to do just about anything, even drink cyanide, thinking it is the right thing to do. History has told us, these cults, must be dismantled and those therein, de-programmed.

I vacated AVFM to break free from an organization that has become a cult without sound systems and controls to govern their activities with responsible sound thinking and decision making. This cult has and will tear up anyone within, it thinks is not 100% committed to their ill agenda.

Frankly, AVFM does nothing good for the MRM at this time. It served a reasonable good purpose, but that time has passed. It is incapable of putting on a yearly conference, given the vast amount of money it has received in donations. Instead they pay for flying David Miller aka David King in from the UK so a group of men can get drunk and do stupid things at a retreat putting the MRM into disrepute. Instead they could have been using all available funds to hold a conference at what ever level they could afford. I have hosted public events that cost less than $500.00 for a maximum of 200 guests at the Royal Canadian Legion.

Anyone giving donations to this seemingly ill minded deviant who it appears may be guilty of embezzling corporate/donated funds, may see their money spent on a trip to Italy, as the CEO and his partner have enjoyed in the recent past. If you want to collect money for your personal use, be sure to fundraise clearly for that, separate from money that is intended to be used for helping men and boys. You should never take money from general funds as your personal funds. You owe that duty of care to your supporters and your financial donors.

I challenge the CEO of AVFM to give full disclosure of how he spent every dime of the money donated to AVFM. What is the total you have collected? Interestingly, one major donor, no longer gives him the tens of thousands of dollars they have. Perhaps, because they too realized, they were getting duped and their money was being ill spent.

For the record, I have not been fired, I have only been fired up by an alcoholic trigger happy imbecile. A drunk who is incapable of dealing with executive matters on an executive level as a responsible CEO. Reminds me of Yosemity Sam, both guns a blazing, all the time.

Let’s begin to look at the innards of AVFM, A Voice For Men. Many men argue, AVFM is no longer a voice for them. I have adjoined in that voice of a growing number of men and women.

What I am now, is your worst nightmare Mr. Executive CEO of AVFM for attempting to smear my good name and deliberately causing much harm to many. I want and will get justice by every lawful means available to me. That is a promise I will keep.

I am the latest hard working AVFM volunteer, who you took advantage of by exploiting my time without even a thank you. A thank you that does not cost a single dime, since you have no means to pay your staff, not even with cookies or crumbs or buttons. It seems the dust between your ears have fallen into your equally hollow pockets. What ever it is, collectively it is worthless.

Truth is, you just trample over people like the thug and bully, the tough guy, that you think you are. The real truth is, you are a cowering coward. Spineless is what most bullies are and that is exactly how I see you. A yellow belly poison lipped scoundrel.

As I state in my 8 page private letter you made public, I have everything digitally recorded. I am sure everyone will be interested in my collection of irrefutable unabated truth, the inner workings of AVFM, without any objection of being fully open and transparent. I have nothing to hide. How about the AVFM CEO? The question is do you feel the same or will you continue to hide the enormous amount of money you have taken from many hard working MRAs atop of exploiting countless volunteers who you fail to pay or thank and trample all over them when you feel the need to have a temper tantrum or that they are in your way.

You forgot to consider that the sword cots both ways Paul Elam. Next time, think twice before you go swinging at the fences like some lunatic maniac evaluating your action through the bottom of a Whiskey bottle. When your staff needs to discuss serious business matters with you, don’t cancel that meeting. Be a responsible CEO. War is a failure of diplomacy and that is what you have caused now and so many times before.

For the record:

  1. I never published the 8 page private letter sent to several current and former AVFM senior staff. This was done by the CEO of AVFM, Paul Elam. Condoned by David Miller aka David King, Jason Thompson aka Peter Wright and Suzanne McCarley and possibly others. Instead of contacting me to resolve matters diplomatically, AVFM CEO, ejaculated private information on his web site causing much irreparable harm.
  2. I have never personally borrowed money from the CEO of AVFM save $300.00 one time which was repaid in short order.
  3. What large portion of money did you forgive? Qualify your allegation. What exactly do I owe you money for? Be specific and produce a copy of the flight receipt for Erin Pizzey and how it was paid and by who and the amount.
  4. Which activist with limited means provided any money to my benefit? How many destitute activists have you taken money from, Paul?
  5. I have never borrowed money from any MRA for my personal use save Al Martin who provided $3,400 for silver to produce AVFM coins and $1,700 towards Erin Pizzey’s flight to N.A. The cost to produce tooling alone is at $8,000.00 that I donated to the benefit of AVFM. The purpose of this was to sell product, cover my out of pocket costs and give AVFM a source of revenue.
  6. AVFM and Al Martin paid for the flight of Erin Pizzey from the UK to Toronto and from LA to the UK. I was stuck with paying/owing a disproportionate sum of this cost given the much smaller amount of money I collected for the 2014 TorontoDV Symposium, compared to the much larger amount of cash AVFM collected for the ICMI14 event. $30,000+ for security alone. Had I not resurrected the 2014 TorontoDV Symposium, AVFM would have been stuck covering the entire cost of flying Erin Pizzey business class from Britain to the USA and within USA. Effectively I subsidized the ICMI14 to have Erin Pizzey appear there.
  7. I will be dealing with Al Martin directly, not through AVFM to settle my account with him.
  8. Erin Pizzey was never out of pocket for a single dime at the 2014 TorontoDV Symposium despite the false allegation made by AVFM CEO. We had many people scramble to accommodate her every need. The quoted price to me by the Flight Centre was $5,814.68. I can not recollect what other costs amounted to the $6,500.00 I recollect.
  9. The CEO of AVFM has to date never provided a copy of the cost of Erin Pizzey’s flight to me, Attila Vinczer, despite my asking him to do so on Skype on Friday July 31st at 8:51 am EST. Transparency please.

Copy of that request: “Paul, I need a copy of the invoice for Erin’s flight or produce an invoice from you or AVFM.”

  1. The CEO of AVFM has chosen to keep his books and PayPal account secret, instead of being fully transparent and accountable, as the Honey Badgers were, to how he spent 10s of thousands of dollars if, not 100s of thousands of dollars donated to AVFM for advocacy work. Without being transparent, we can only guess what the amounts are that you have spent. I know he took a salary from those donations, which is perfectly warranted. Question is how much money did he use for himself and how much was actually used for advocacy work, if any.
  2. AVFM CEO had AVFM staff cover hotel bills at the ICMI14 conference according to Suzanne McCarley. I have no reason to not believe her. How many people have covered hotel bills of the ICMI14? Have they been repaid? How much money did those poor overworked AVFM staff members pay on your behalf, Paul Elam? The sword cuts both ways again.
  3. I failed to mention, Suzanne McCarley said the $150.00 it cost her to drive to the 2015 TorontoDV Symposium including her hotel expenses, that she would make it a donation. I thanked her, but said it too would be paid. I truly don’t want charity from her, particularly fully engaged in stabbing me in the back. My gut instinct was bang on about you.
  4. I should also mention that there was one donor who did provide $250.00 twice for the 2015 TorontoDV Symposium for a total of $500.00. I will publish the entire list of donations I collected. Most people wish to remain anonymous some don’t.
  5. If the 2015 TorontoDV Symposium was an event put on by TCMCST and AVFM having nothing to do with it, why is there a video of an event I hosted without the official branding, without me in it and instead with the logo of AVFM?
  6. Paul Elam, David Miller aka David King, Jason Thompson aka Peter Wright, Suzanne McCarley recently worked together to facilitate or conspire the pirating of the official http://www.TorontoDV.com videos. They also invoked the help of Shawn Sutherland and Christian Chiason to effect this calculated deliberate theft. They, Shawn and Christian may have unknowingly become Paul’s accomplices thereto. Currently, Paul Elam is profiting on his YouTube channel on my coattails fully intent on causing me and the TorontoDV financial and character harm.

Skype conversation here below clearly laying out their piracy scheme:

[10/5/2015 5:02:37 AM] A Voice for Men: Speaking of having an effect on people. Attila does not know that both Shawn Southerland and Christian Chiasson have authorized me to use all the symposium video material. I am uploading Tanveer Ahmens talk right now, with AVFM branding and Attila cut out of the video.

[10/5/2015 5:03:17 AM] Peter Wright ?: Oh, that is fucking delightful.

[10/5/2015 5:07:15 AM] A Voice for Men: Look at it this way. Our actual turnover is at a level to make most corporations very happy. It would actually make most green with envy. We do have occasional bad apples, JTO, DD, and now Attila, but overall this is an amazing group of people.

[10/5/2015 10:59:42 AM] David King: [Monday, October 05, 2015 5:03 AM] Peter Wright ?:

<<< Oh, that is fucking delightful.and better yet, we have a cast iron justification for it that isn’t revenge: copyright.

each speaker, unless they assign copyright of their performances, own the copyright to their performance (just like shawn and christian own the rights to the video and audio respectively).

since it’s safe to assume that attila won’t license us to use his material, we have no choice but to cut. wonderful, no?

[10/5/2015 5:09:08 PM] Peter Wright ?: Wonderful indeed! :-)

[10/5/2015 5:19:34 PM] A Voice for Men: Attila may enlist one of the Canadian speakers into issuing a demand that I remove the videos, or may DMCA it with YT.

[10/5/2015 5:24:28 PM] David King: this is where attila is going to come seriously unstuck.

[10/5/2015 5:25:21 PM] David King: he does not have copyright over the series, so if he tries to file a DMCA claim, he will perjure himself

[10/5/2015 5:26:16 PM] David King: it is possible that an individual speaker may demand that their performance be removed, but they can do so only to those videos that contain their performances.

[10/5/2015 5:26:16 PM] A Voice for Men: Yeah, he will have to get the speaker to do it.

[10/5/2015 5:26:57 PM] David King: yes, quite right, he will have to get the speaker themselves to do it, and if he succeeds in doing so, then questions will be asked why there is a hole in the programme.

[10/5/2015 5:27:15 PM] David King: not a smart move for any of the speakers (on attila’s account, anyway)

[10/5/2015 6:15:05 PM] A Voice for Men: I am not really concerned about holes in the program. I am billing this as an AVFM production (which it now is thanks to Shawn and Christian) and cutting any mention of Toronto DV Symposium.

[10/5/2015 6:30:40 PM] David King: no no, you misunderstand me; if he persuades a speaker to withdraw their video, then questions will be asked why: were they in some way ashamed of their speech, or was there something else behind its removal?

[10/5/2015 6:31:07 PM] David King: I’d say: if a video is removed by request of the speaker, then that should be said so. then that speaker can explain why the video was removed.

[10/5/2015 6:31:23 PM] David King: nowt to do with torontodv

[10/5/2015 6:31:38 PM] David King: (which was doomed from conception, in hindsight)

[10/5/2015 6:31:53 PM] A Voice for Men: ahh, roger, and agreed

[10/5/2015 6:32:41 PM] A Voice for Men: I may seek the remaining speakers permissions, edit a pair of ass cheeks over Attila

[10/5/2015 6:32:47 PM] A Voice for Men: s face and call it a day

[4:23:35 AM] Suzanne McCarley: And speaking of concern trolling, removing all mention of TorontoDV may come across as vindictive and petty, given the current fracas.

[4:42:47 AM] A Voice for Men: Not a choice. Naming TorontoDV or showing Attila in action in any of those vids gives him the right to DMCA the vids I am posting.

[4:43:12 AM] Suzanne McCarley: That makes sense then.

[4:43:45 AM] A Voice for Men: I can still get DMCA BS from any of the speakers, but I am guessing I won’t.

[4:45:06 AM] A Voice for Men: Even the speakers at this point have to know that this is the only way that their talks are going to be seen. Attila has done nothing with them, which is why both Christian and Shawn signed their permissions over to me.

  1. Paul Elam threatened to publicly shame me unless I paid him and others money I did not have within an unspecified, but short time. I have evidence that Dr. Tanveer Ahmed more than likely conspired with Paul Elam to exact this threat against me unless I paid money according to their demand.

[8/11/2015 11:29:05 AM] A Voice for Men: Hi Attila. I am back in town. Ready to talk any time after this afternoon

[8/12/2015 7:04:54 AM] Attila Vinczer: Hope you had a good rest Paul. I am working 14 hour days, but would like to call you this evening at about 10 pm EST. Does that work for you?

[8/12/2015 1:39:14 PM] A Voice for Men: Yep. That will work just fine. See you then.

[8/12/2015 3:35:32 PM] A Voice for Men: Attila

I am writing to cancel our meeting for tonight. The fact is that there is actually nothing left for you and I to discuss.

Governing that decision are the following facts.

1) In the course of putting on your DV symposiums over the past two years you have left a large wake of broken promises, distrust, deception and, in my opinion, outright lies.

2) You have taken financial advantage of nearly every major figure in the men’s movement. Among the names of people who have vociferously complained to us of their financial dealings with you are Erin Pizzey, Martin Fiebert, Tanveer Ahmed, Al Martin and myself.

3) In three of these five cases we have had to invest time and energy in explaining to these individuals that their bad experiences with you personally were in no way connected to AVFM.

All of this, Attila, has put our reputation at risk and continues to cause risk to AVFM in the future. Some of these individuals named are still considering going public with their stories.

That leaves me and AVFM in a precarious position. Fact is that no one will give a damn that I have been working to try to rectify this situation behind the scenes. They will only see that I and AVFM had knowledge that you were dealing in bad faith with several people and that we failed to make that public knowledge.

Attila, you could have returned the silver to Al Martin the moment you knew the coins were not selling. You chose to keep it all and he has not seen a dime of it. You could have made partial payment plans to all the people you owe money to, and instead they are just getting sales pitches and bullshit. All this ends as of now.

As CEO of AVFM I am no longer willing to take that risk on your behalf. I am no longer willing to put the reputations of so many hard working and honest people at stake because you have left so many people holding the financial bag for your personal ambitions. In short, because you have ripped them off.

You are hereby permanently removed from any affiliation with AVFM. I am also advising you in the strongest possible terms to make good on restitution owed to the people whose money you have taken.

I am no longer invested in protecting your name. I am only interested in not allowing your actions to reflect on AVFM or to damage others in this movement.

Within a reasonable (and I dare say short) amount of time AVFM will assume you have no intention to make good at all and will be publishing a statement about this whole affair, with the signatures of each person who was misled over the past two years.

That is the state of things, and there is no need to discuss it as your word has proven to be completely unreliable. We are left to our own devices now and we intend to do whatever is necessary to ensure that the greater men’s rights community is aware that doing any business with you will result in financial losses for them, just as we will ensure that the public knows we had no connection to the money you failed to return to those who supported you in good faith.

Please do not request a personal audience from me regarding this matter. I will not grant it unless it is to show me hard evidence that you have paid everybody what they are owed. What you “plan to do,” and/or “the check is in the mail” is not good enough. The time for words/promises is over. It is time for you to make good on your commitments. I assure you we are going to make good on ours.

Paul

[8/12/2015 11:16:08 PM] Attila Vinczer: Paul:

I just got in the door and am stunned to read this. What possibly could have happened today to prompt this decision? What ever it is, I will continue to struggle to remedy money owing. If Al wants me to return the silver not cash I can FedEex 100 1oz coin blanks to him. At no time have I ever considered not returning all of the money to all of the people. At no time have I ever considered ripping anyone off. My ambition was to help DV matters.

One of the things I wanted to say to you today, is I am vacating my association with any and all advocacy groups. The only matter remains is to pay you, Al, Marty and Tanveer. There is no money owing to Erin. Have been helping people for 10 years and need to rest and need a change.

I look forward to settling my accounts with all parties as quickly as I am able to do so.

Attila

  1. AVFM CEO indicated he would help raise money for the 2015 Toronto DV, but failed to do so, then lied to the public that he never said he would help.
    [6/2/2015 12:38:21 PM] Attila Vinczer: Hey Paul. Just getting everything fine tuned for the 2015 TorontoDV Symposium. …..

JB has helped and we were only able to garner about $400 raised towards the DV Symposium. I tried on my own and got about $150. So I will need to figure out just what will work and I will. This is the same problem Erin Pizzey found when looking for funding to help men and boys. This ill negative stigma must change.

I am wondering if it would be possible to see if AVFM supporters may be willing to help with some of my costs. If I could manage to raise $2k would be extremely helpful to me.

[6/2/2015 9:31:55 PM] A Voice for Men: Hey Attila, sorry just got around to seeing this. I will run it by c-level for response.

[6/3/2015 4:07:13 PM] Attila Vinczer: I have picked up Tanveer. He is at the hotel already. Do you think there is any chance of having AVFM assist in the fundraiser campaign. that is to ask AVFM supporters to help?

[6/3/2015 6:05:08 PM] A Voice for Men: I really don’t see a problem except logistics. I am getting ready to fly out in the morning and have not packed yet. Have several other things to do. Can this wait till I get back from Toronto?

  1. You, the AVFM CEO, Paul Elam, secretly vacationed in Italy with his partner while having others believe he was impecunious.

My advice to you Paul Elam.

Come clean with the financials of AVFM. Be transparent, you should have nothing to hide, even if you took a reasonable salary.

Create a business plan for AVFM, your blueprint. This will also enable you to obtain public or private funding.

Stop picking fights with everyone, it only attracts a gawking audience. This is not the traffic you want to attract to a viable organization that professes to help men and boys.

Engage in putting boots on the pavement, be it conferences, public meetings and certainly engaging in advocating, lobbying government for change etc.

If you are the CEO, behave like a CEO, and stop getting into pissing matches at the lowest level, publicly or otherwise. Makes you look like an uncouth rag tag fool. If you are unable to behave like a responsible CEO, step down and hire someone who can.

Compensate your volunteers and be sensitive to how it affects their well being, physically and financially. Look at the growing trail of destroyed AVFM staff you leave in your wake.

Stop or cut back on your drinking.

Most of all, stop being a bully. Eventually, there will be someone who will stand up to you. I certainly will NOT allow you or anyone to coerce, bully, intimidate or extort anything from me, particularly when there is no way I can give you what you demand.

Fix the security breach of your web site. I have repeatedly mentioned to management of this concern.

After cancelling the ICMI15, you could have supported the 2015 TorontoDV Symposium, instead you chose to pirate my work and rob me of revenue you are now earning on YouTube and you wonder why I am unable to make ends meet with my TorontoDV Expenses.

Shame on you Paul. You are an utter disappointment a disgraced perjured individual willing to do anything in a rage of bitterness fuelled by pure anger for revenge. I want absolutely nothing to do with you. You are a black hole that drains the life out of people who are anywhere near you.

I did not throw you or the MRM under the bus. In your futile attempt to throw me under the wheels of your slimy wrecking machine, you got trapped under the wheels of your own bus dragging many people there with you. You did more than shoot yourself in the foot.

I am not abandoning my fellow man and will continue to advocate for the rights of children and families so long as I am able.

You can’t make jam out of shit. This crap you caused needs to be flushed. I wish you no harm and harbour no feelings of animosity, but that does not mean I will tolerate your wanton malicious behaviour towards me. Where there is smoke, there is fire. In this case an AVFM inferno.

I wish you and your family all the best.
Respectfully,

Attila L. Vinczer
The information here above and herein I verily believe to be true based on information that has come to my attention or provided to me by various sources and means. E. & O. E.

There’s some good doc dropping in there too which will come in handy for me and other women working to stop these violent men. This is a massive gift. Thank you toxic masculinity. Thank you. You silly asses couldn’t run a movement if your life depended on it.

It’s epic.

 

 

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13 thoughts on “UPDATED: Vinczer Exposes Site Security of AVFM With a Whammy of an Indictment Against Boozer and Embezzler Paul Elam

  1. Hilarious! 😆 That’s kind of what I always figured those guys would be like if they tried to run anything. The 3 Stooges on meth. Childish misogynist rants do not an administrator make.

  2. Having lived through my own dark days of problematic drinking, that Drunk Fails video is painful to watch. It seems funny at first, but it’s a good visual metaphor for both the buffoonery and the dangerousness of the MRM.

    When I first learned that Elam has had/has problems with substance abuse, I was like, “of course.” It plays such a huge role in Elam’s story. Alcohol can be a supreme Tool of the Patriarchy, if that makes any sense, and untreated alcoholism in a world that still shames it and doesn’t educate about it/glamorizes alcohol use + a misogynist culture of domination = a lethal combination/endless vicious cycle of destruction that helps churn out shit stains like Paul Elam.

    (There was a “demonic possession” conversation going on another thread; I don’t believe in demons much either, but to me active alcoholism is about as close to demonic possession as a person can get, especially when you throw in male rage, and indeed demons were often blamed back in the day before it was studied and understood.)

    Of course it is never an excuse for anything, and not all misogynists are alcoholics, and not all alcoholics are misogynists. From what mine eyes have seen, however, male alcoholism and misogyny are often intertwined and not addressed as a deadly unit by our violent culture of male supremacy.

    • Yes, the intertwining of the two. I see a lot of guys in my hood that are just like Elam. They’ll get into an elevator w/ me just reeking of booze and then they’ll say sexist shit and I’m like, ‘god damn you’re a loser.’

      It’s good that women stop giving drunk men passes on their misogyny. Men love to blame their hatred of women on something else, like Elam’s ‘holy spirit’ bullshit.

  3. It’s not too soon to think about what happens when AVFM is closed,

    The future of the evolving Manosphere is an interesting question. I have been looking into the distinctions between the different strands of feminism. Though I’m not focusing on men at all right now, it strikes me that maybe the manosphere is slowly structuring itself on the strands of the feminist movement. There are the liberals like Mike Buchanan (Fathers4Justice) and Pierce Harlan (COTWA), pragmatic, often traditionalist, and concerned with men’s rights within liberal societies (they should thank Gloria Steinem). There are still some socialist/Marxists who are concerned with wealth inequality and men in poverty. There are the “radicals” (apologies to radfems, this is abstract stuff), like the online MRAs and PUAs most concerned about male sexuality and reproduction (they should thank Andrea Dworkin). There are the “cultural” manospherians like MGTOWs who want to separate and take refuge in an isolated masculine culture (they should thank Mary Daly).

    The manospherians unite in a purpose diametrically opposed to feminism: to maintain male economic, political, and sexual control, in other words, control in all parts of global culture. They have the advantage of the status quo, greater aggressiveness, and the inertia of the majority; feminism has the advantages of the moral high position, huge underutilized resources of never-mobilized women and girls, impetus, momentum, and the scientific fact of equality.

    AVFM has been a short-lived backlash ideological website devoted to re-normalizing misogyny and male domination in response to 120 years of feminist work. The objective was to mobilize male resentment at losing control via social and other media. Its extremism and vitriol backfired into crystallizing media prejudice against the manosphere. It will take some time and effort to moderate this prejudice now, and I think the general move online and elsewhere will be to tone down the overt misogyny. I think the focus will come off feminists for a while, giving us the opportunity to clean our own house without being constantly beleaguered (except by the usual fringe elements). I agree with Femonade that the pressure for male control will never stop, so our job seems to me to be to develop new global cultural institutions that can stand up to that pressure.

    What do others think?

    • Good comment.
      I think you make a good point about the Manosphere using feminist language and concepts. They quite obviously read feminist discourse, very scantily, and twist it the way men would do as you say, to maintain male supremacy.

      These men cannot think outside their apocalyptic death drive, their hatred of women so I don’t see them stopping the attacks on women. I don’t see it that way at all.

      Elam plans on ruining the intactivist movement, and that’s what he’ll do, mark my words. He’ll get them some attention but by doing it his way, he’ll make them look just as horrible as he’s made the MRM look. The intactivist movement already has MRA’s in it that are making it whacko. When I see these dudes go to Dr’s home addresses with their red spray painted crotches, screaming and yelling, I see ppl thinking ‘what a bunch of nutjobs.’ Elam will only amp that up when he starts his new crusade.

      No matter what kind of intelligent appeal is made to these men to stop targeting doctors, they won’t listen.

      As an aside, Did you see the post on the invasion of Eastern European uni’s to kill their Women’s studies depts? I told you. That has to get done. I’ve got a post in the works for radfem repost and it will heavily influence The Black Fleet.

      I don’t think MRA’s will stop attacking women since we are the objects of their derision. At least AVFM won’t stop doing that, even if Elam takes a sidetrack to ruin the intactivist crap.

      There will be more MRA attacks on women irl too. Just look at that 15 yo white male who wanted to kill girls at his school b/c they wouldn’t send him nude pics. This will escalate.

      I’m more concerned with MRA groups on campus but it seems liberal feminists, while they recognize MRA’s as a threat, they allow transactivists to run the show, effectively silencing the best and brightest feminist voices.

      I don’t know who to be more angry at.

      Elam knows to go after the intactivist movement b/c it’s like an anchor. It’s really about the only issue men have these days that’s remotely legitimate.

      What I understand about MRA’s is that they’ve always existed in every era. There’s always a male supremacist movement to try and wrestle back control over women.

      Speaking of cleaning our own house, I’m truly worried about liberal feminism. It has gone full MRA. We have enough problems with men but now women are doing their work for them.

      The Manosphere will never be looked at as legitimate. It will always be castigated, rightly so. There’s nothing they can do now to clean up their image. AVFM will go down the toilet and continue the downward spiral but there will be other men to take over.

      • I see what you mean about others taking over when AVFM goes. Guess I’m thinking they’ll be so busy trying to get back the ground AVFM lost for them they won’t have much energy left for feminists for a while, but maybe I’m being too optimistic.

        As far as the intactivis tmovement you are very right that Elam’s thing of posting names of doctors and rabbis online on a new register-her site will seriously backfire. That’s if he ever does that. Those hospital lawyers will eat him and his supporters for breakfast. My guess is it will be like the mental health network that never got off the ground or the H in the MRM or the move to make MGTOW delegitimate itself by bringing in married men (I assume Elam is married. Again.) Or the 2015 conference.

        As for liberal feminism, it’s pretty awful to behold how they’ve lost their way with the pomo blurriness stuff. But I still admire what they’ve accomplished before that all hit them. I think they’ll move back to their basics soon.

        Agreed that just as women’s resistance to male domination has always been a factor, there has always been a male counter-resistance and always will be.

  4. I shouldn’t have been, but I confess, I am astonished that after all these years Elam doesn’t know the basics on how to run his website or manage a comment thread. I guess he just collects and spends the money. They must all know they have been conned by a grifter by now, surely.

  5. Paul Elam two years ago:

    “Attila Vinczer joins AVFM management team

    October 6, 2013 By Paul Elam 59 Comments

    It is with the utmost pleasure and honor that I am able to announce that Attila Vinczer has been offered, and has accepted, the position of Director of Canadian News and Activism with A Voice for Men.

    In this position, Attila will oversee Canadian news reports from the MHRM within the borders of Canada, but even more importantly he will be coordinating events (with our dedicated support) as the official head of all AVFM sponsored Canadian activism.

    As no doubt most of you know, Attila recently organized and coordinated the wonderfully successful Rally for Men and Boys in Crisis in Queen’s Park, Ontario on September 28.

    As the head of Canada Court Watch, Attila has extensive experience with activism that targets many of the same issues that we address here at A Voice for Men. He is, at least in my observation and opinion, a remarkable blend of hard work, no-nonsense pragmatism and warm, genuine concern for the struggles faced by men and boys.

    In short, he is a hard-edged activist driven by compassion. He is the right man for the job and he will serve as a critically important bridge between Canadian activists and activists from other countries. All of us are proud and excited to add him to the leadership team of A Voice for Men. His acceptance was passed by our board with a conspicuous and enthusiastic lack of dissent.

    I ask you to please join me in expressing gratitude to Attila Vinczer for the work his has done and now the work yet to come as a member of the AVFM management team.”

    Aw.

  6. Pingback: Paul Elam’s Girlfriend Finally Speaks | Mancheeze

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