I don’t even know this guy, but based on his comments and the bit of video I watched where he tried to ‘debate’ Steve Shives, I can tell he’s a male supremacist sympathizer if not one himself.
Here’s a comment he made that I thought was illogical, that I corrected him on it.
‘what I meant by that was that the term “rape culture” seems to have been tailored in order to deliberately evoke a strong emotional response. The concepts it describes don’t even necessarily have to do with rape; it is possible, using the definition of the word, to imagine a society where no rapes ever took place, but where the concept of rape itself was considered by everyone in a nonchalant and apathetic manner. Despite the fact that no rape ever actually takes place in such a society, it could still be called a “rape culture,” and I find that problematic. The problem that I have with the term is the same problem I have with people who refer to abortion clinics as “baby-killing factories” and the necessity of working as “a form of enslavement.”
Yeah cuz rape/ sexual assault is a devastating crime. It SHOULD provoke a strong emotional response. It’s like white males have never had to be activists in their lives. Whodathunkit?
You also don’t define rape culture properly, as many MRA’s do, or you just skip over the definition even after its been given time and time again. The concepts DO have to do with rape and sexual assault so I have no idea what you’re on about.
Like many MRA’s you latch onto some weird ass metaphor and say absolutely nothing except ‘It makes me sad in my pants.’
I was short with him because I’m sick to death of male supremacist sympathizers not defining rape culture or making up their own definitions for it. Since I’ve been monitoring the Manosphere for years and years, I recognized him immediately as a sympathizer. He’s the guy that says ‘I’m an egalitarian’ or ‘I’m a humanist!’ in order to hide his anti-feminist, anti-woman views. I heard this kind of guy is common in the Atheism movement and boy did I ever find that out. Now I know why women in atheist circles are sick to death of these guys.
In response to my one short comment I got a long winded TLDR knuckledraggin’ mansplain that confirmed my assessment that he’s an MRA sympathizer. I’ll quote him, which I think is fundamental to any response, and put my responses after each quoted section.
+Mancheeze I’m going to attempt to be reasonable with you, but judging from your comments, I realize that this may very well be an exercise in futility.
He’s setting it up carefully here so that only my complete capitulation will be taken as legitimate. MRA’s use this tactic right before they call a woman ‘too emotional’ or ‘illogical.’ Ultimately, I was correct in that he did just that. This was just the sneaky set up. Read on
First of all, no one here said- or even implied– that rape and sexual assault aren’t devastating crimes, or that they shouldn’t evoke strong emotional responses. The issue that I raised was that the term “rape culture” refers to things which do not necessarily constitute sexual violence. And in my hypothetical example above, I showed that any society in which sexual violence is absent, but still contains the criteria needed to constitute a rape culture (widespread apathy toward sexual violence being chiefly among them) would still be considered a rape culture. At no point did I say anything to the effect of “rape and sexual assault aren’t serious and shouldn’t elicit strong emotions.” What I was in effect saying was that rape culture, which can exist in a society where no form of sexual assault takes place, is misleading and deliberately emotionally manipulative.
Secondly, I didn’t define rape culture at any point in this thread, or even in my exchange with Steve. How exactly did I define it improperly? What I essentially said- at least in my conversation with Steve- is that by using the same criteria as was used to define “rape culture,” one can just as easily say that we live in a “theft culture,” a “tax fraud culture,” a “burn-your-finger-on-the-stove” culture, and so on. The point of drawing these comparisons, and of my entire objection to the term “rape culture,” is to suggest that we need to call it something different.
This is why precisely why MRA’s and their sympathizers never comprehend rape culture, because they never define it or don’t define it properly. What he did in the first comment was omit completely what rape culture is so he could make strange metaphors that have nothing to do with it. He compared the term to right wing misogynists who think Planned Parenthood is a ‘baby killing factory.’ How is that remotely equivalent? How is an activist movement against rape and sexual assault the same as religious fanatics calling PP ‘baby killing factories?’
I’ve seen MRA’s use these weak assed analogies all the time. You see, here’s where this is going, and he’ll deny it but I’m gonna say it anyway because for many years I’ve watched MRA’s make the same argument:
He hates the term rape culture because he thinks it’s misandry. He thinks by using the term rape in rape culture is feminists being too emotional. He takes this personally, not logically. He wants feminists to name their response with something less threatening to his privilege. He’s just like every other MRA who, whenever feminists talk about rape, he takes it as ‘I’m a rapist’ and lashes out at women. This is why MRA’s scream about false rape claims being worse than rape.
Male supremacists are notorious in every generation by their attempts to take the public consciousness off of women’s issues. The Suffragettes dealt with these supremacists, 2nd wavers did, and so do 3rd wavers. The current focus on sexual assault on campus is bringing these men out of the closet. Crockodumb is no different.
Next, I don’t know where you got the idea that I’m an MRA, other than the fact that you seem to divide the world into those who accept feminist theory, and those who are Men’s Right’s Activists. What I do know is that you seem to harbor nothing but resentment for MRAs, and I think that this is misguided of you.
You sound just like one.
Radical elements of both groups (and I suspect that you’re one of them) seem to have no desire to compromise, even though they claim to want the same thing. MRAs and feminists both want equality, and this is evident to anyone who has observed them dispassionately and objectively. It’s a tragedy that radicals like yourself prevent the two groups from working together and reaching some common ground, whatever the flaws that feminists and MRAs happen to have. I personally think that both make excellent points, and that both also make awful and ludicrous points. To suggest that I’m one or the other is to completely mischaracterize my attitude toward this entire debate, and to ignore the fact that I have actively endorsed and promoted both MRAs and feminists. The reason that Kristi is receiving much more attention to her channel than usual is because I’m drawing attention to it, and I’ve urged people to consider her points and evaluate them on their merits. If I were an MRA, this would be an extremely unusual action to take.
This is a typical tactic to say both sides are just as bad as each other when it’s absolutely not the case. This is where MRA’s post that silly ‘All heterosexual relations are rape.’ Show me these regressive feminists dude and I’ll show you an elephant sitting on a toothpick smoking a cigar. Also, you must consider who has privilege here and it ain’t women. So what he thinks is bad feminism isn’t really bad feminism, it’s women who are in the lowest caste who are tired of rape, battering, femicide, FGM, child marriage, street harassment, burqas, women’s testimony not equal to a mans, lack of reproductive rights, poverty, lack of political power, lack of social power, prostitution, pornography. There is no feminist who is ‘just as bad’ as regressive male supremacists.
When he claimed MRA’s and feminists both want equality, I knew he had no understanding of feminism at all. Yes, some feminists say equality, but most want liberation.
The fact he thinks women should start cozying up with the Manosphere is just, well… ugh. You don’t cuddle up to your oppressor. It’s sorta the rule in any sociopolitical movement or didn’t you get that dude when you were doing Occupy? Yeah, he even mansplained that to me too.
Calling me a radical doesn’t mean what he thinks it means. He’s using it to say ‘extremist.’ I’m using it as it’s actual meaning ‘root.’ Feminists like me are concerned with the root of our oppression, and yes, feminists define this differently, but he doesn’t know this because he knows nothing about feminism. He has a sad in his pants.
Also, I particularly didn’t like how he took credit for Kristi’s success. It seemed very patronizing. I certainly didn’t find her video through him. I found it because I’m always on the search for women who talk about patriarchy. Plus, the fact he did share the video got the other male supremacists to go to her video and call her a cunt. I wouldn’t be so quick to take credit for that dude.
Finally, I don’t appreciate your suggestive generalization of an entire race and sex. I understand that some rationalizations have been made by certain people as to why it’s okay to generalize some races and sexes and not others, and I understand that there has been attempt to redefine “sexist” and “racist” in an effort to make it acceptable to imply that an entire race and sex lacks empathy. Well I’m going to put my foot down here and inform you that I don’t and will not tolerate ANY form of racial or sexual prejudice, and that any attempt to rationalize them will be met with justified accusations of hypocrisy. This is the only time I’m going to ask you to refrain from making uncharitable generalizations about people with certain skin colors and sexes, and it’s the last time I’m going to bring this up to you nicely.
This is a very long wank he’s having. White males like him do this all the time. He’s going to pull another MRA tactic by ‘putting his foot down.’ All I mentioned to him previously was his failure on rape culture and this is what I got: a mansplainy manifesto, another characteristic of MRA’s.
Yeah dude, characterizing a male supremacist movement as somehow legitimate won’t get you anywhere with me either. Either make an argument about rape culture or get off the pot. Your long mansplain was totally unnecessary.
Finally, I’ve been an activist in a number of movements. The most important of them were Occupy, when I spent entire nights freezing in a tent in Downtown Los Angeles to protest the banking system that led to the housing bubble’s popping, and the protests against Proposition 8, which made gay marriage illegal in California.
I really don’t care dude. Ugh. Is he ever going to argue the subject?
In the future, I’d appreciate it if you didn’t cast aspersions about my character, my activities, my beliefs, and my associations, particularly if your criticisms are based- even in small part- on my race and sex.
Gosh dude, stop whining and mansplainin’.
This is a very sneaky tactic he’s doing and I’ve watched MRA’s all over the internet for years do it. They speak as if they’re oppressed and a woman disagreeing with them is oppressing them. He’s just setting me up like he started at the beginning so that if I don’t sit here and praise every ounce of his mansplain, he thinks he has some ammunition because he ‘warned’ me. Gosh, I’ve seen MRA’s do this SO MANY TIMES.
It’s a clever little trick they do. It’s so they don’t have to listen to your response and can then go ‘SEE! SHE IS A CUNT!!!’ And that’s exactly what he did, even after I told him I’d make a full response on this blog.
Here is the predictable outcome of leaving him a short comment telling him he’s wrong about rape culture. Notice he doesn’t address the point or make an argument. He’s wrong, and I’ve shown him he’s wrong but like any MRA he will never admit it. He gave himself the out he needed at the very beginning so he would never have to deal with the subject. He laid down the floor and had a temper tantrum screaming that I was oppressing his whiteness and his maleness, and that was his justification to never have to deal with the argument.
Here’s the response. Typical white male rage:
you really are the perfect stereotype of what a radical nutcase ideologue looks like- the solipsism, the victim complex, the two-cent blog.If I were equally as shallow and lacking in nuance as yourself, I’d write off all feminists as
deranged and emotionally stunted loonies,
based solely off of the temper tantrums you display here.
But I know that most feminists aren’t like you, and I know that they’d be ashamed to consider you one of them.You’re the type of person that other feminists cringe at and explain away with “not all feminists are like that,” and the fact that you’re so lacking in self-awareness may explain why you’re such a
miserable and unhappy bitch
. It’s not the rest of the world that’s the problem, it’s you. I only hope for your sake, and the sake of your innocent victims-to-be, that you’ll someday come to realize that. I would stop there, but I feel obligated to qualify my (and other sane people’s) impressions of you with specific examples.
“Oh and I love the fact you think Kristie got attention because of you. No dude. She got attention from me because I look for WOMEN who discuss patriarchy, not because of you.”
This alone demonstrates to me your solipsism. I wasn’t talking about you when I referred to Kristie’s recent spike in viewership, now was I? I was referring to the hundreds, even thousands, of other people who came here after I promoted her on social media. It doesn’t always have to be about you. If you take just that one statement away from this, you might someday find yourself capable of experiencing empathy. The so-called “Manosphere” is not equivalent to MRAs. Pickup artist forums, bodybuilding forums, and health blogs for men have absolutely jack shit to do with men’s rights. The fact that MRAs are situated within the so-called “Manosphere” does not make the Manosphere a place devoted to men’s rights, especially since male feminist blogs can just as easily be considered a part of that sphere. The fact that you can’t seem to separate these two provides me with some insight into your subpar reasoning skills, and your complete lack of understanding of these so-called misogynists. I’ve looked at both groups objectively and dispassionately, and you evidently haven’t, partly because the word “objectivity” is completely alien to you. So clearly, one of us is in a better position to assess what these groups are actually about. Now you are more likely than I am to experience sexual assault, and I am sorry for that. But as a man, statistics say that I’m about three times as likely to be murdered as you are, and that I’m considerably more likely to be violently assaulted as well. Yet I don’t act like a
much less use these numbers to justify acting like a
I also don’t need to contrive a term called “assault culture” or “murder culture” to evoke emotional reactions to things which are largely considered inevitable.
I would go on but I was right about the futility of trying to reason with you, so I won’t. At the very least, I can attempt to imbue you with an iota of self-awareness. So go ahead and write your shitty little blog for your handful of followers, and once you receive the inevitable applause that comes from your echo chamber, feel free to pat yourself on the back for your brave activism and self-professed “intellectualism” (as if you have the remotest inkling as to what such a thing entails.)
Say hi to your cats for me.
Oh, one more thing- anyone who uses the term “mansplain” in a serious and unironic way has surrendered the right to be taken seriously by anyone whose IQ is greater than their shoe size.