Transactivist Payton Quinn Tells Followers To Flag My Counterpetition in Support of Germaine Greer for Hate Speech

 

Here is the 1500 Signature Update that’s got Payton and pals hitting the flag button:

Oct 25, 2015 — I’ve thought about what I was going to say when this petition reached 1500 signatures and I hope I am eloquent with my words, but I am really pissed off. I hope I’m able to speak for many women who are too afraid to say what I’m about to say .

This issue is not only about freedom of expression, it’s about women’s lives, women’s bodies, and more importantly, misogyny. I can’t count how many times I’ve seen women be no platformed, threatened into silence by transactivists and their ‘feminist’ allies.

Guess what? We’re sick of it.

I’ve been watching this one issue slowly simmer away, just under the tongues of many women. I’ve watched transactivists cancel the Vagina Monologues because talking about vaginas makes hurt feelings. I’ve seen them sit outside the only women-only Music Festival (Michfest) and demand to be let in. I’ve watched many hard won women’s spaces and cultures be completely ransacked by transactivists, all under the guise of 3rd wave liberal feminism. I’ve seen them force midwives associations to stop using the words ‘pregnant woman.’ I’ve even seen them take offense at bloody cupcakes that are frosted pink to look like vaginas!

Our patience is gone.

Let me tell you something: women are extremely angry. Greer has said what many of us think but are too afraid to say it because of the vicious misogynist attacks that will most definitely occur if we do, and this is a critical clue to what’s going on here.

Just today on Twitter I’ve seen men threaten Greer with ‘kicking her in the cunt’ and insult her over her age and status as a woman. They basically said she should be invisible.

The misogyny is palpable. Greer doesn’t identify as a woman, SHE IS A WOMAN. She doesn’t have a fetish about vaginas, she has one.

Women’s biology, women’s chromosomes are what makes us women. ‘Feelings’ don’t a woman make. The sole reason we have a feminist movement is because women’s biological realities form the basis of our oppression as a class. Any woman, anywhere in the world, can’t just play identity games with their station in life.

It’s a fact that in 2015 women in America still have to fight just to have reproductive control over their own bodies. In rural India you are murdered if you’re born female. FGM, child marriage, sex trafficking, women’s representations in pornography, femicide, birth control, hypersexualization, objectification: if you’re female, YOU’RE FUCKED!

So excuse me if I don’t think men who say they ‘identify’ or ‘feel’ like a woman have anything in common with me. Excuse me if my feminist movement is concerned with the lives of women and girls and not men’s appropriation of them.

To claim that men who ‘feel like a woman’ are women without a shred of critical thought is just downright ignorant, and worse, it’s anti-feminist and misogynist.

Seeing 3rd wave liberal feminists publicly spitting on women, misunderstanding feminist theory, and being completely fascist in their approach to women who don’t buy into this nonsense is quite frankly, disgusting.

The feminist movement is by, for and about WOMEN, biological females. It’s not about men’s feelings. You don’t graduate feminism 101 until you can master that.

There was one tweet today that perfectly encapsulated this issue. Greer told a truth, a fundamental one. Since they can’t admit it, they’ve got to silence her.

~Diana Boston aka Mancheeze

 

Payton can’t engage in a conversation, that much is clear, but is being touted as a comedian by the mainstream media as one of the geniuses supporting this no platforming attempt. Here’s one of Payton’s tweets which I found hilarious and mostly obnoxious:

 

Apparently Payton flunked Grade 6 biology and doesn’t even know how human reproduction works. Does Peyton think infants come out of a cabbage patch? This is the level of discourse transactivists and 3rd wave liberal feminists have sunk. Check out some of the comments on the petition to silence Greer and you’ll see what I mean:

25-10-2015 1-22-37 PM 25-10-2015 1-23-58 PM 25-10-2015 1-25-02 PM 25-10-2015 1-26-19 PM 25-10-2015 1-29-35 PM 25-10-2015 1-31-13 PM 25-10-2015 1-31-44 PM 25-10-2015 1-32-11 PM 25-10-2015 1-33-29 PM 25-10-2015 1-34-35 PM 25-10-2015 1-35-06 PM 25-10-2015 1-35-30 PM 25-10-2015 1-36-03 PM 25-10-2015 1-36-22 PM 25-10-2015 1-37-00 PM 25-10-2015 1-37-45 PM 25-10-2015 1-38-02 PM

 

While Peyton instructs people to silence my petition in support of Greer, they also like to favourite and retweet people showing an incredible level of hatred and misogyny towards Greer.

 

//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js

//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js

 

//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js

 

You can imagine my face when some transactivist accuses Greer of ‘transmisogyny’.  My eyes do this kind of squinty thing as I see the Oxford definition of the word misogyny in my minds eye.

The Guardian is now flogging the idea that not allowing Greer to speak will cause further harm to trans people. The article is a mess.

The rigidity and conventionality of Greer’s stance puzzles me: to define a woman as a person born with certain organs in certain places is uncurious – uncharacteristically so from this famously interrogative mind. The philosophical dimension of gender is far more complicated and interesting than the way a person looks or sounds; to refuse to brook any of that, appealing instead to the gut sense of an unidentifiable bloc of “a great many women”, is authoritarian and narrow. You’d expect it from Suzanne Evans, not Germaine Greer.~Zoe Williams, The Guardian

Over forty years ago feminists like Greer defined gender as a social construct ie: not material. Therefore, anything that comes from it, like gender identity, is fruit from the poisonous tree.

Every child has gender confusion growing up precisely because gender is a socially imposed set of cultural lessons, and it’s females who get the worst of it. Girls are taught to wear pink and be submissive to men. Boys are taught to dominate females and be aggressive.

Like Meghan Murphy pointed out in a tweet, the mass media of today isn’t even talking about feminism, unless you mean neoliberal clap trap that has no basis in material reality. This is what ‘gender studies’ has accomplished: wiping out the core concepts of feminist analysis so that young women don’t even know how to discuss it with Greer, never mind having any firm knowledge about feminist scholarship. It’s a good bet not a single one of these ‘feminists’ and transactivists has read The Female Eunuch, one of the foundational texts of feminist theory and practice.

And let’s face it, Greer’s right. Men don’t magically turn into females. It’s just impossible. I think many people know this but it’s only women who are getting slammed for saying it.

I saw that very question in the comment section of the Guardian article. Why aren’t we talking about women who want to be male? The answer is pretty simple and complicated. First, men who want to wear skirts outnumber the reverse by 3:1. And even that’s a conservative estimate because we truly don’t have good data. The second reason has to do with deep-seated misogyny and anger of the men who see themselves as women.

The general public has to start understanding why men are doing this. Blanchard studied these men for many years and came to the conclusion that most of them are what he termed ‘autogynpephiles.’ Simply put, these men want to become the internal image they have of women. It’s a sexual thing for them and it’s buried in a cloak of extreme narcissism.

It’s for this reason that women like Greer, who say ‘no, he’s not a woman,’ get shouted down. Autogynephiles don’t like it when women don’t accept their delusional image of themselves and so they lash out. Remember Atwood’s saying  ‘men are afraid women will laugh at them; women are afraid men will kill them?’ Many of the comments on the petition to no-platform Greer said things to the effect that men who wear dresses are more of a woman than Greer is. It’s men’s feelings and masturbatory fantasies that fuel this rage against women who question them.

When Greer gave a talk about women’s lives at Cambridge the entire Q and A was taken up by accusations, mostly from men, of ‘transphobia.’ They never addressed her actual talk and were more interested in nailing her for some imaginary offense. Greer responded in her typical snarky, yet meaningful way. We rightly condemn white people for doing ‘blackface’ but for some reason it’s ok for men to do this to women? I think not.

We must consider that ‘trans males’ (I will not call them women) reinforce the worst stereotypes about women. Many of them float around wearing lingerie in selfies while supporting the idea that females are meant to be sexually objectified in porn and prostitution.  One look at Bruce Jenner on the cover of Vanity Fair and the fact he’s getting a Woman of the Year Award rightly makes women angry. The feminist movement cannot and will not accept this. This is misogyny and woman hatred.

That’s the core of this misogynist rage whether you want to hear it or not. You won’t hear it in the mainstream media and you certainly won’t hear it in ‘gender studies’ programs, which has stopped teaching feminist theory years ago.

Feminists abhor gender and gender identity. We’re not about to embrace social roles that have oppressed women and girls for centuries through practices like Chinese foot-binding and the current fad of labiaplasty.

Men can wear whatever clothes or styles they want but it doesn’t make them women. Makeup, heels, skirts et al. are not womanhood. Women’s lives are forever intertwined with our female biology, not our clothing. Our experiences of the world being the sex that carries fetuses, has periods, and so on is what makes us women. This is not to say it’s our destiny but it’s bloody well meaningful to us and we have an entire movement to address it.

This is why women around the world still have to fight for reproductive rights, menstruation leave, and on-site child care. The feminist movement can’t be ransacked because a man wants to ‘feel like a woman.’ Intersectionality, the term transactivists have hijacked for their cause, doesn’t apply. If I get pregnant in a Southern state I can’t simply ‘identify’ my way out of it. I can’t just put on a blonde wig and forget about it.

It’s time to actually read and comprehend feminist theory and practice and not dismiss the pioneers of our movement with chants of ‘hate speech.’

The petition in support of Greer is at 2500 signatures and has been updated. If you’d like to sign it, go here.

Advertisements

54 thoughts on “Transactivist Payton Quinn Tells Followers To Flag My Counterpetition in Support of Germaine Greer for Hate Speech

  1. Like I have said the vast majority of these men in dresses are what used to be called transvestites. The trans today are not the tiny number of trans of 40 years ago, who were people victimized by homophobia or had true body image disorders. Some of that still exists, of course, mostly with the younger people being pressured to hack off body parts, etc. But they are the small minority of the men and make up almost all of the women who are pressured to “transition.” The rest are men with sexual kinks. The transvestites have a masturbation fantasy. That was all well and good when they did it in the privacy of their own homes. I certainly wouldn’t stop them from doing it; that kink or fetish or perversion is strictly between the guy, the clothes, and any family member affected. But now these guys are not happy doing their thing at home. They have got to go further and further into the public sphere, forcing the rest of us–especially women–to accept their kink as normal, that they have a “gender identity”–code for sexual fetish. They want to force their kink on women by invading their personal spaces, their institutions, their sports. This is wrong. It HAS to be called out, folks. I was just thinking of the Jenner “Glamour” award. Why don’t the feminists in NYC stage a sit-in at the offices of Conde Nast and demand that award be rescinded? Second-wave feminists did a similar stunt back around 1970 against Ladies Home Journal, and it was successful. It can be done again. There are vastly more women than there are these fetishists and their enablers. It just takes a group of courageous people to call this garbage out.

    • I’ve actually seen the autogynephile thing for myself. Many years ago I sold Avon. (I know, I know, but it’s quick cash.) One of my customers had a male name. Went to his place, thankfully with a male friend in tow, and it was a cross-dressing dude with nude porny photos of women all. over. his. apartment. Kitchen and living room, anyway. Cutouts from porn mags, affixed to the refrigerator and framed on the walls and decoupaged on the furniture.

      I assumed at the time that he had some kind of issues around his transition (I was vaguely aware of transsexuals at the time), acted like nothing at all was wrong, took his payment, gave him his product and left. But when I started seeing all this talk about AGPs, that memory came back.

      They can’t tell me AGPs don’t exist. It’s not just theory to me.

      • Of course they exist. They always have. They are basically what used to be called transvestites. They play the “gender identity” card to cover up the fact they want the dubious right to crossdress in public, to exercise their sexual fetishes and addictions in public. Never mind they crap all over women’s rights.

      • Wow. Decoupage AND porn. I’m going to be sick.

        Stop Trans Chauvinism recently had a post from somebody describing working in a vintage clothing store and a guy coming in and trying on lots of dresses and then calling her in to the dressing area to help him and he’s standing there stark naked masturbating. Probably not all autogynephiles are public masturbators, but some definitely are.

        People need to know that transgender and transsexual are not the same thing. And that it’s right wing autogynephiles who run the transgender movement. The one that’s always screaming for our support.

        Mancheeze, thank you for doing the counterpetition! And whoever said that thing about having a sit in at Glamour, please please somebody do that.

        • Unfortunately, hardly anybody uses the term “transsexual” anymore. A lot has changed over the past 40 years. It’s pre-op and post-op with the surgery, which very few trans undergo. Even there, the crossdressing community hasn’t limited their crossdressing just to the clothes but to fullblown surgical mutilation, so differentiating between transgender and transsexual is meaningless. People also very seldom use the term “transvestite,” a term that needs to make a comeback because everybody knows what that is. Transgenderism obscures more than it describes, and on purpose. In the vast majority of the MTT cases, it is a form of sexual addiction, a compulsion because these guys are what used to be called transvestites. Yet women as a protected class are being obliterated to make room for kinky men in dresses. It is crazy.

          • Susan,

            Re: Women obliterated to make room for kinky men in dresses.

            I have, I think, a unique perspective on things sometimes because (1.) I’ve been around a bunch of trannies (mostly very post-operative and pretty convincing even under bright lights) in the past (10 to 25 years ago) and (2) I now live mostly in isolation, away from pop culture, TV and far, far from anyplace that might be deemed urban. So, when I do poke my head out and look at things live TV and newspapers, which I did recently, I see THEM everywhere. They are inserted here and there in all kinds of TV shows an alleged news programs. I even noticed a tranny character in the comic section of a print newspaper last week. I don’t normally read comics, but I had that page open and it jumped right off the page at me – it was one of those dullsville comic strips – something “Morgan” maybe.

            A lot of men on TV – and it’s mostly men already – are in drag. Women are being silenced and disappeared and pigs in wigs are popping up in our place claiming to be us, acting as us and speaking as if they are us. It’s happening in modeling, in alleged women’s magazines, in athletic competitions – virtually everywhere that the pop culture exists.

            And real women, actual women, have to watch what they say about this, lest they be disappeared, too. Some resisted, at first, but having your life, your career, your work, your entire legacy destroyed is a pretty serious threat, so they eventually capitulate.

            I swear it’s just like watching that old 1950s movie, “Invasion of the Body Snatchers.”

  2. Yeah, you are right, HMQ. Completely. We must all fight. I will be donating at the end of each month to help you speak out. It’s all pretty simple: be steamrollered by delusory belief-systems, or fight.

  3. How and where would anybody flag the petition for “hate speech?” Women saying that their vaginas matter is “hate speech?” What an asshole.

  4. If you can’t win your argument without trying violently to silence your opponents, there is clearly something deeply wrong with your argument.

    Thanks for doing this. Liberals who think there is something freeing about tossing concerns about sex-based oppression overboard make me want to pound my head against the wall, especially the young women. But mostly I just want to rip to shreds the pornified culture that brainwashed them.

  5. HMQ, I’ve been away and unable to comment for the past couple of weeks, but I’ve been following all your posts as usual.

    This business regarding the no-platforming of Germaine Greer is positively shocking. Of course, this is only one university and I don’t know the first thing about universities in Australia or England, but I notice that this is where the no-platforming I read about most often takes place.

    Are there no non-wacko-liberal universities in these countries?

    Here in the U.S. the public universities (which is most of them) are run by and overrun with liberals and their unrelenting nonsense, however, the private colleges and universities (of which there are far fewer) are much more reasonable and inclined to hear another perspective. I certainly don’t think you’d be shut down for saying that men are not and cannot become women. I was listening to an excellent speech by Greer last night all about Shakespeare and his wife and daughter and I was thinking how much it would have been appreciated at my own alma mater – a very old, private college.

    It is way past time that liberals understood that feminism does not belong to them. I don’t know how they ever got the idea it was theirs to do with what they want, for instance to promote porn, “free love” and all manner of male perversion in the furtherance of the exploitation of women, and then to decide which women are allowed to speak about their own experiences.

    Personally, I’m done with it. I’m done with things like “intersectinalism” in feminism and anything else that does not prioritize women – actual women.

    Liberals are a lost cause. They can’t listen to anyone else’s perspective without resorting quickly to name calling and playing the same old tired cards in the deck. So, why not start talking to non-liberal women? Why not make feminism more inviting for them?

    • Postmodernism has polluted BOTH public and private universities since the late 1980s. It coincided with the rise of the crackpot neoliberalism that has so damaged political discourse in the US and elsewhere. The problem with so-called liberals is they want to show how “tolerant” they are of other people, and never mind the fact that a movement like the trans movement is every bit as sexist as the KKK is racist. Feminists 30 or 40 years ago had no trouble calling transgenderism–then called transsexualism–what it is. Transgenderism is totally incompatible with feminism, and no real feminist, no sane person, can support it. It is now that college campuses have complete run amuck with the notion that there is no such thing as an objective reality, that words have no meaning.

      • Susan,

        I had no idea, but I shouldn’t be surprised.

        My alma mater is still run by the Southern Baptist association. I am an atheist. But, they did not insert religion into non-religion classes and they provided a classical education. I’m sure they cannot have changed. There must be a few others like them, although I’m sure they are very few.

        This overflowing liberal insanity in education, especially public education at all levels, is probably the reason for the trend in anti-intellectualism, especially among more conservative thinkers because, as you rightly say, it is “crackpot.”

        I am ever so glad I decided not to pursue a career in academia! I’d probably be dead by now, if I had.

  6. I was digging around online while drinking my morning coffee and found this: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/25/world/europe/cardiff-university-rejects-bid-to-bar-germaine-greer.html

    It sounds like she may be speaking, after all – at least, it appears that the university has rejected the bid to prevent her from speaking.

    Still, it is bad news that there are efforts by the delusional and their totalitarian disciples to prevent radfems from speaking. This won’t end easily, if ever.

  7. It might help your cause if you could be bothered to spell “Payton” correctly.

    Secondly this is not a “free speech” issue, your attempt to subvert it into such is a bastardization of the main issue.

    Greer has been invited to speak (not debate, to orate) at an institution that has a published commitment to LGBT equality. Greer has in the past, for instance compared transgender women to “rapists”, pejorative language like this is by any measure a hate speech.

    Recently she stated “lopping your dick off doesn’t make you a fucking woman”, I agree with that, but the hormonal make up of the individual does. I can imagine few things more dis-empowering as an individual than to be “trapped in the wrong body”.

    We live in a world that puts transgender women in male prisons when they transgress the law, that does not allow them to change their passport from “Mr” to “Miss”, and we wonder why 41% of transgender people would rather die than accept the status quo. By supporting Greer, you support an individual who has demonstrated views that have contributed to a societal structure that literally kills individuals.

    The university, in my view was remiss in not weighing up Greer’s right to a platform against the human rights of it’s transgender students and staff. Your argument as such is a straw man nonsense, after all you wouldn’t surely defend Nick Griffin’s right to a free open platform at the very same university so he could openly be racist and homophobic would you? I mean if you would…you’ve kind of lost the moral argument

    • Women have human rights. Women are tired of men playing ‘womanface’ and then telling us we’re being hateful for not wanting men in our private spaces.

      Men are not women. That’s the point. Everything that comes after that violates WOMEN’S RIGHTS.

      Feminism is about women.

      Apparently you don’t even know how many ‘transwomen’ actually DO assault women and girls. Because they do, at the same rate every other man does.
      https://outofmypantiesnow.wordpress.com/2013/10/28/when-is-90-not-substantially-all/

      Read that ^ dumbass.

      Maybe you should spend more time on the sidebar of my blog clicking links and less time trying to no platform a feminist, a woman, who knows people can’t change sex; a woman who’s been physically assaulted and written terribly violent things by ‘trans’ MALES.

    • Oh and hormones don’t do anything to change your sex. That’s endorcrinology, not chromosomal sex.

      biology 100.

      Men don’t belong in female prisons after they’ve committed a violent crime, especially a crime against a woman.

      DERP.

      • Also the 41% figure is from some Internet survey, this is not science. If you want to figure out what percent of a cohort has attempted or considered suicide, you must correct for certain personality disorders involving narcissism and a tendency towards histrionics. Also this kind of self-reporting fails (as usual) to even define “transgender” as anything other than “person who says they are transgender when completing the survey.” There is no room in science for this sort of sloppy work.

        • If people are using that statistic, they are basically admitting that these people are messed up mentally, with usually more than one thing wrong with them. However, it is unethical for the medical profession to hack off healthy body parts. We have been through this with eugenics, with the horrors of Nazi Germany, with the horrors of psychosurgery, so there is NO reason whatsoever these surgeries should be allowed to exist. One day they WILL be banned when all of the lawsuits get filed against these quack doctors, pharmaceutical companies, and parents, when all of the longterm physical damage to people who have been mutilated comes to light.

          • I am quite inclined to agree, but this brings up a larger ethical question about plastic surgery generally. Example: one could argue that women never really need larger breasts, and that generally speaking there isn’t anything wrong with anyone’s noses, that this is all just unhealthy cultural pressures as well. So the question would be whether it makes more sense to outlaw procedures or to attack this problem at the root, by attacking cultural expectations.

        • Miep,

          I think that’s something that ought to be discussed where women are concerned. For instance, I can tell you that lots of women I know have been pressured by club owners and entertainment agencies to get larger and larger breast implants without any regard for the safety of the implants or the health of the women, who are seen as disposable, the value of their lives limited to a few years on the stage or in porn mags.

          There are some club owners who ran a racket, taking kickbacks from their own surgeons. I know of a bunch of badly botched jobs, too, all from one set of club owners and their third-rate plastic surgeon!

          If a person has breast cancer and requires re-constructive surgery, that’s one thing. But, there is massive, massive pressure on women – especially particular women whose lives seem to be of very little value to anyone (Barbies and bimbos) – to undergo dangerous surgeries. These breast augmentations have to be monitored and re-done every so many years, too, until they are ultimately removed when the women’s career’s are over. I’ve seen women with debilitating iatrogenic diseases due to this kind of medical malice.

          It’s something that definitely should be discussed. Unfortunately, it’s also one of those topics that libfems don’t seem to want to discuss – because “consent” and “white feminism.”

      • It would seem that quite a few people really don’t understand basic human biology. Wonder how long it’ll be before we hear about a movement to stop schools from teaching it because it’s “transphobic.”

        The Right will have us teaching creationism and the Left will have us shutting down any discussion of biology as “hate speech.” Beam me up, Scotty.

    • Troll says: I can imagine few things more dis-empowering as an individual than to be “trapped in the wrong body”

      Try being born FEMALE in a patriarchal dictatorship. It’s pretty “disempowering” from day one.

      Once again, feminism is not about dudes and dude-feelz. It is about the human rights of the approximately one half of the population whose humanity has been denied for thousands of years, who have been enslaved by MEN.

      As Greer says in one of the vids posted here, men’s feelings are not her concern. They are not our concern. We women are not in any position to concern ourselves with man-feelz and the only time I care is when I a have to deal with all of the threats from males and male violence, which is our day-to-day, hour-to-hour environment.

      But, yeah, nothing is more “disempowering” than being a dude with a fetish for pink laydee undies. Hilarious!

      • Exactly. These transactivists never engage what’s being said to them. They just do what MRA’s do, a litany of whine after whine. Just yesterday some woman who calls herself a feminist on Youtube started appropriating Aboriginal culture so the dudes could feel better about their total violations of women and girls. I asked her to show me how humans can change sex with like SCIENCE, and she just went on a diatribe.

          • I know it’s terrible because it’s ultimately so harmful to females, but I got a good giggle out of that video, especially his sashaying across the campus courtyard, with his voiceover “I am a trans woman.” He’s just so clearly a GNC male. Why can’t he just be that? Why does he have to say he’s a woman? If this shit weren’t so lethal I’d never stop laughing.

          • Is it so terrible to laugh at them? Are we laughing at femininity because we are trained to laugh at men being feminine or are we laughing at the idea that femininity is somehow definitive?

            Usually I’d argue that laughter is powerful, but gender is such a mindfuck that I have no idea.

          • I should clarify that I find his sad claims of “womanhood” hilarious, not necessarily his fashion choices. The absurdity of a non-transitioned man calling himself a woman because it feeds his ego/special snowflake-ness is off the charts with this guy. In contrast, I have no beef with gender non-conforming men. To be completely honest, I often find feminine straight men kind of sexy.

          • These are both thoughtful comments, Miep and keshmeshi. I don’t know why it’s funny. It is a mindfuck. I think it was just that moment of him saying “I am an trans woman” that made be bust out laughing. I couldn’t give two hoots if a man wears a skirt or makeup. I loved Boy George back in the day. I loved all those early ’80s people, and Bowie/glam rock, and Annie Lennox, and so on. None of them claimed to be the opposite sex. Boy George was actually kind of masculine if you listened to him talk. John Taylor of Duran Duran was breathtakingly beautiful and sexy, eyeliner and everything. It’s just all so absurd. It makes my head hurt because I see it for how ridiculous it is and not only that, how horrible it is for women. Why can’t people just wear what they fucking want to wear? Can you imagine what a more interesting world that would be? But nope, that simply WILL NOT DO in this here fucked-up shit show of patriarchy.

            Eh, this is a rambling comment. I’ll stop now.

      • Re: “Her beard.”

        Well, of course, it is a common misconception that women do not have beards. Only ignorant, backward, uneducated hillbillies believe that women don’t have thick, bushy, long beards like old goats. This is why education is important. We must educate people that real women have beards, and dicks and balls, and long, hairy arms like chimpanzees and slanting, neanderthal-like foreheads, and big, broad shoulders and gigantic biceps like Lou Ferrigno. It’s just ignorance, I tell ya!

  8. But you are wrong about the biology. There are XX males, this can happen if during meiosis in the father the Y chromosome transfers the SRY gene onto an X chromosome. In the presence of the SRY gene, the process of masculization that is typical of male embryonic development starts and a genetic female will develop as phenotypically male.

    Similarly, there are XY females. This can happen in a couple ways. For example, Swyer syndrome is when the Y chromosome transfers its SRY gene during meiosis onto an X chromosome (so the opposite from above). Other way is when a typical genetic male (that is they have the SRY gene on the Y chromosome) has Complete Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome (this syndrome also affects genetic women, but has little to no clinical effect) . Since all embryos are gonadally indistinct in utero and only develop as male when they react to the presence of an SRY gene and androgens, a genetic male that cannot process androgens will develop as a female. In particular, the testosterone produced by the testes (which develop in an androgen-independent process during the embryonic stage) in a genetic male with CAIS, is converted into estrogen, which effectively feminizes the body and accounts for the normal female phenotype observed in CAIS.

    Granted, these are not transsexuals, but it is still clear that when it comes to actual human biology, you have not done your homework at all.

    • Wow, what a load of crap. There is no such thing as an XX male.

      Intersex isn’t trans. Plus, intersex people DO have a sex, they just have ambigious genitals.

      Oh and citations please for this bullshit because it’s the only way we can tear it apart and see it for the nonsense it is.

      I’ve done the homework. There is no such thing as an XX male.

      • She is correct about the above disorders of sexual development. There are XX people who have had the SRY gene translocated from a Y to a different chromosome and who develop phenotypically as males, and androgen insensitive XY people who develop phenotypically as females.That is intersex, it is rare and it is distinct from transgenderism. None of that applies to the great majority of transgenders who are just normal males and females. Trans are known for trying to coopt intersex for their own purposes, but they’re not the same thing.

        By the way, I am a radical feminist, a lesbian and one of your loyal readers. I am also a biologist, and I know the existence of intersex does not support the the arguments made by transactivists.

        http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=25059

          • I was not trying to co-opt anything. I even acknowledged that this wasn’t the same thing as being transgendered. Actually, I was more concerned about the harm this rhetoric may have on truly intersexed people like me.

            Now that you bring it up though, I do think it does show that the biology of sex is incredibly complicated and mostly still unknown. Therefore, just because you cannot think of a biological reason a man or woman might identify as a member of the sex that is opposite their particular phenotype, doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.

            I will emphasize that this doesn’t mean you are wrong, but you provide no actual evidence to back up your claims. But this is a problem on the other side too, it is just assumed, a priori, that being transgendered has a biological cause. I guess my main point would be that the jury is still out and that it would be much more constructive to actually determine what the cause is, whether social or biological or whatever, first.

          • Generally speaking, believing you are something you actually are not, doesn’t constitute any sort of evidence that you “really” are that. When you demand proof, you ignore the simple fact that you are the one making the extraordinary claim. The burden of proof falls upon you, and if you cannot find an underlying physiological marker, it’s all just make believe.

          • Yes. I made a point of that in my Greer petition; gender identity is immaterial. It’s a feeling in one’s mind that cannot be measured in any meaningful way.

            Gender identity is fruit of the poisonous tree that is gender.

        • I also think the language used to describe this disorder, where in 1995 there were only 150 men worldwide that were diagnosed, is faulty.

          90% of them have the SRY from the Y chromosome, meaning that they’re MALE and of course they develop male.

          Agree, disagree?

          • In the paper you cite, all of the 46,XX males in the study had the SRY gene on an X-chromosome. Now if you are saying that the SRY gene was initially carried on a Y-chromosome, then yes, this is true, but in the father not the XX male. And yes, this means that they develop phenotypically as male and are in fact male. Again, I worry not about trans people here, but intersexed ones.

          • Well you should know that this blog is talking about transpolitics and has admitted several times the coopting of intersex by transactivists.

            I have no hand in intersex politics but it seems these days with transactivists co opting it, I have to learn about it. So thank you for clearing this up for me.

            I do think that in this day of neoliberal sloganeering that it’s necessary to have clear language. Did you see the tweet that moron Payton tweeted? She made up a bunch of chromosomal combinations and said it doesn’t matter who identifies as what. My question, and you can answer, is whether you think this condition should continue to be called XX male, simply because it gets co opted and as I showed by pointing to that study, the Y is present, it’s just shortened and attached to an X.

            I’m tired of trans co opting these conditions too and I admit I wasn’t aware that you could actually call a male an XX when he DOES have Y, just a bit of it.

          • Sorry, I actually missed the 90% number. The relavent statement, “Ninety percent of [patients with XX male syndrome] have Y chromosomal material including the SRY gene. Y sequences are usually located on the distal tip of the short arm of the paternal X chromosome”

          • Yeah, that’s why I think they should call it something that denotes there’s a Y in there so that people can’t co opt it.

            Being intersexed, I would imagine this is important no? To take this out of the hands of transactivists so they don’t steal it to cover for autogynephilia?

    • An “XX male” is not male. The person appears externally phenotypically male due to the presence of the translocated SRY gene but is not male. Similarly, an “XY female” is not female, but appears externally phenotypically female. Both are intersex conditions and both have abnormal internal anatomy due to the lack of normal genetic signals that drive the development of internal anatomy (proper degeneration of the Mullerian and/or Wolffian ducts). For this reason, individuals with both types of conditions are infertile.

      An “XX male” is a female with a gene she shouldn’t have that results in a masculine phenotype. An XY individual with AIS is a male with AIS that results in a feminine phenotype. An XY individual missing an SRY gene is a male missing an SRY gene that results in a feminine phenotype.

      Genetic sex still doesn’t change in any of these cases. External phenotype changes. Sex doesn’t. One can argue that socialization changes (and I would agree, it does — a person with AIS is treated as a female from birth). But genetic sex does not change.

      I believe there has been a single reported case of a person with what was believed to be an XY genotype who was able to become pregnant and carry fetuses to term. The study that evaluated the woman and her offspring found that her lineage had a unique mutation that encouraged chromosomal mosaicism, meaning that certain cells had XX, certain cells had XO, and certain cells had XY. This type of mosaicism is exceedingly rare (but fascinating).

      And all of this is of course entirely beside the point. Intersex individuals have a legitimate medical issue that is in NO way related to “gender feels.”

      My chromosomes are abnormal =/= “I like pink dresses so I must have ladybrain and you must respect my gender identity or I will send you death threats and tell you to go die in a fire and sic an internet hate mob on you”

  9. Pingback: Germaine Greer Will Speak at Cardiff | Mancheeze

  10. Hi,

    Men are not women. Jenner was scared shitless about going to prison over his killing a pedestrian. He got off. Let’s see how long his femininization lasts.

    Ok. That’s out of the way. The rest is hey, HMQ, I’m upping my monthly contribution. Any feminist who will speak the truth and take the flak gets my money.

    Thanks and great work on the petition.

    Anonny

Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s