Twenty-one year old white male terrorist Dylann Roof shot up a church and killed 9 people. It’s common knowledge that MRA’s are in bed with white nationalists and racists. The hatred and misogyny the Manosphere preaches appeals to them. A Voice for Men is already worried that Dylann will be identified as part of the Manosphere. Dylann was described as adrift and a video game addict who would spend long hours doing nothing. It wouldn’t be the first time the Manosphere defended violent white males. MRA’s were very upset when Alex Kozak shot a woman after she accused him of sexual assault.They defended him.
On cue Dean Esmay posted in r/mensrights that the killer Dylann Storm Roof will somehow become part of the Manosphere. In fact, some of these creepy males are already hailing him. From Chateau Heartiste comments:
jackLet’s say what needs to be said – Dylan roof is a hero. He will likely be executed-even liberals will be for executing this guy. He was completely correct that apes rape our women. And of course, they kill plenty of our men and women, something never mentioned on the media outlets.
He gave his life for making America a better place. We need more Dylan roofs.
One commenter said 8chan was reporting this (the link is now dead).
Short time reader, first time commenter/pol/ is saying he got cucked and had a felony drug charge, fwiw
http://8ch.net/pol/res/2374774.html
Cuck is cuckolded. Once again the Manosphere finds a way to blame women for male violence.
Paul Joseph Watson, an MRA who regularly makes Youtube videos, immediately made a video trying to reframe the murders as ‘poor white males.’ Goodfella, another AVFM MRA, left a comment on the same video with almost 80 thumbs up:
Absolutely disgusting eh? You should watch his dumb video. It will horrify you.
Today I woke up to another MRA post on r/mensrights that blamed feminism for targeting black men. Activist116 calls his blend of mansplainy nonsense an ‘epiphany’: ‘feminism is racism.’
In the wake of the Charleston shooting, I want to talk about an observation that I’ve made with regard to the fact that the shooter was under the belief that African Americans were sexually assaulting whites en-masse.
We are living in a new age of tough on crime politics when it comes to men being falsely accused of sexual assault. But remember, while many white men on this forum are worried about this happening to them, it has always been black men who have had to prove that they have never raped a woman. It is clear to me that their is an intersection between feminism and racism.
If this is the case FEMINISM IS RACISM.
Feminism has produced a system of procedures in all walks of life that perpetuate and maintain the power, influence and well-being of whites over black men. It originates in the operation of established and respected forces in modern society; and thus receives far less public condemnation than does individual acts of racism. Although it is a subtler force of racism, feminism is far more destructive.
Feminist ideologies maintain the suppression of black men in particular. Who gets arrested for “man-spreading?” the black man. Who will be put in jail for false rape accusations? The black man. Who overwhelmingly goes to jail for not paying child support? The black man.
Sure the guy was an loser, but I don’t think there are many black men on this forum to appreciate the fact that most of the feminist policies that we in the MRA despise overwhelmingly target Black men. Black men are feeling the onslaught of feminism the worst. The majority of men in the forum appear to be white, but really black men are in need of more help than any other group of men.
Yes, the men in MRA-land are predominately, probably 99.9% white males. That should clue in the dude but it doesn’t.
In the next few days I’m sure more MRA’s will come to the defense of yet another violent white male who sat in his room all day addicted to video games and porn and doing nothing with his life, aside from toxic and racist masculinity. Of course these whack jobs will blame it on everything other than the problem: the entitled and misogynist white male.
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CAFE Men’s Rights Group hunts for dox of female protestors. Calls to ‘punish’ and rape them.
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Reblogged this on There Are So Many Things Wrong With This.
“He was completely correct that apes rape our women.”
Before I say anything else, let me say that yes, I do experience the full horror of realizing there are men who believe this. I do experience the horror that men who believe things like this become mass murderers. It’s impossible to talk about this case without first acknowledging that there must be emotions of despair, horror, and repulsion when these killings are defended. This statement is one of the most repulsive statements I have ever seen from the Manosphere. I have to stop right here. And just look at it from the viewpoint of a civilized human being. I see the savagery, the hate, the stupidity, the brokenness. I see you, Jack. Please get help.
There is no help for guys like jack. He needs to be put down like a rabid pitbull.
White male supremacists are the oldest terrorist groups in the United States. It is mind boggling to hear the law enforcement spoks and corporate media try to pretend they never heard of such a thing.
All these shootings are committed by white males and yet nobody calls them terrorists. This is why I described him as such in the article. They have similar characteristics. Didn’t Kimmel write a paper on the problem with white males? They’re entitled. That’s the problem. Roof thought women ‘belonged’ to him and felt he was owed something. White males need to be knocked down a few pegs. They’re owed nothing for being white males.
What they do to us, primarily “white” women (as I’ve said before I hate this designation because it says nothing about race and only about appearance), in our own homes is also not regarded as terrorism, somehow, either.
I was struck by the murderer’s statement of ownership of “our women.” This is why white men scare me the most of all men. Their sense of entitlement to and ownership of other people makes them the most dangerous of all men to women, in general, but especially white women who are seen as “theirs,” as their possessions.
They really think they own us – it’s like the mafia or something. If they talk to you or you have some kind of relationship with them or they even just see you walking into a store someplace, they have a sense of ownership of you. I believe this is why ALL of my many attackers have been white. I’ve been less successfully sexually assaulted by men of other races and nationalities, but overwhelmingly it has been white men who have raped, tortured, held me captive and tried to murder me.
Surely, I’m not the only person who has noticed this pattern of behavior.
Agreed.
Here’s the quote I’m referring to, in case someone missed it: The killer said to his victims, “You rape our women and are taking over our country.” I found it here in this headline: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/11684957/You-rape-our-women-and-are-taking-over-our-country-Charleston-church-gunman-told-black-victims.html
Then he proceeded to murder a bunch of people, overwhelmingly WOMEN!
Yes, agreed. Ditto.
I was just reading this study http://sgo.sagepub.com/content/spsgo/4/1/2158244014525425.full.pdf
It talks about why white males are engaging in these terrorist acts. The unifying element they talk about is our culture’s neoliberalism and the focus on me, me, me.
They say it’s a culture of narcissism and entitlement that is the overall reason for this. Of course they highlight other things like males trying to prove their toxic masculinity and the media these boys consume, mainly violent video games as a desensitizer to violence, ie. pulling a trigger and virtual killing.
They say these males PLAN it, that they aren’t snapping, which I found very amazing since most media outlets will report this as a mental breakdown. It’s actually not. It’s a planned crime but preceding it is a traumatic event.
I skimmed the table on the second page, and what stood out was that you can’t identify these guys ahead of time – which is scary because that means that there are lots of male teenagers with the exact same rage, so the dangerous ones can’t be accurately identified.
In this situation, gun control would be the best interim solution, with the inability for anyone to purchase a gun for another person (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/govbeat/wp/2015/06/18/the-legal-loophole-that-allowed-dylann-roof-to-get-a-gun/). His father should be culpable as well.
Not relevant to this particular instance, but why does anyone not in the military require military-type assault rifles, particularly automatics and semi-automatics? What do they think they are going to shoot? Not game.
I see no argument for gun control, whatsoever, but quite the opposite since these men usually target victims, mostly women, in gun free zones.
These bastards lose their courage when they think someone might shoot back at them and that is an argument for arming people, especially women – not disarming us or controlling our access or deciding for us what kind of guns we ought to be able to purchase.
Anybody who thinks I don’t have the right to shoot whatever gun I like or use whatever other method of self-defense I deem best against a 1st degree burglar or against gang members on on meth threatening to rape me or a rapist ex (all situations I’ve been in the past few years) is my ENEMY. Anyone who wants to disarm or control how a woman defends herself is an enemy of women. It’s evil. Gun control is evil.
This mother fucker didn’t kill because he had a gun. He killed because he was an evil, racist motherfucker. If he hadn’t used a gun, he’d have built a bomb.
Standing ovation. The first gun control laws were intended to disarm black men and were supported by the KKK and the NRA. And they have the effect of also disarming women. They don’t actually keep most people from buying guns, what they do is make gun ownership more expensive and who’s got the least money in this country? Black people, and women of any race.
I once spent four years living in a majority-black poor neighborhood and the people who had guns were the criminals and the cops. Neither of which group cared about the general population of the area which might have been caught in their crossfire.
Semi-autos are used to shoot vermin out in these parts. They are excellent self-defense weapons that don’t require a high level of skill to use. Lots of people, also, use them for personal and home defense out here where the local corrupt sheriff’s department is over an hour away over hill and dale. Almost no one is allowed to own an automatic in the U.S. because of old laws, but I’ve shot them and I see no reason why law-abiding citizens should deprived of the right to own one. It’s absurd.
Maybe you ought to educate yourself. Maybe leave the concrete jungle and see how the other half lives.
How about we put the blame where it belongs, which is men.
When we blame inanimate objects or mental illness or feminism or whatever else, we are failing to name the problem, which is MEN. Men are violent.
I do think we need better education on guns but I think of all the women who would be unarmed if we took away the 2nd amendment. I wish I could be armed here in Canada. I’d go to all the classes and take it very seriously.
We need more armed women, not less.
The problem is men, I agree.
Men will say anything to take the focus off what the problem is. I’ve been watching them go nuts over guns at the liberal site RawStory for days right after railing against police brutality. It’s like watching a stupid dog chase it’s own tail. If you believe that people have a right to protect themselves from brutes, then they should have the right to be armed any way they see fit to do so.
Then, last night I was listening to a recent re-run of CoasttoCoastAm (almost no women are invited onto these shows anymore and all the hosts are men), which leans more conservative and the host and another man were trying to blame the shootings on pharmaceutical drugs called SSRIs.
The problem is that a whole lot of people take drugs in that class of pharmaceuticals and don’t run around writing manifestos, then planning and executing mass murders. Only men do that. But, we’re not allowed to say that – women aren’t allowed to say anything. Men are controlling the narrative from left to right and everything in the middle.
Re: Gun education. There is a general lack of education about guns that comes through when liberals speak on the subject, which they have apparently learned from each other because they use the exact same lingo over and over, again.
There’s no use in saying, for instance, that we need to take automatic rifles out of the hands of U.S. citizens because that was done decades ago. Unless you’re in the military or have some kind of special permit, you’re not allowed to have one. I don’t know how you’d even find someone who is selling one.
The difference between a semi-rifle and some other fantastic guns that are pump actions is almost nil (except a little more skill is required). But, they always harp on the semis because they do what they do incrementally.
“They say these males PLAN it, that they aren’t snapping, which I found very amazing since most media outlets will report this as a mental breakdown. It’s actually not. It’s a planned crime but preceding it is a traumatic event.”
Yes yes. Every woman who has lived with or had a relationship with an abusive man knows this. Yes, these men do have triggers but, more importantly, they WANT to be triggered. When enough pressure has built up, the triggering event allows them to express their violence.
Here are some more studies to peruse
Kimmel http://www.sfu.ca/~jcnesbit/EDUC220/ThinkPaper/KimmelMahler2003.pdf
Generally speaking, violence always arises out of impotence.
It is the hope of those who have no power.
—Hannah Arendt
Hmm… I’ve looked over this link and the other one above. I haven’t read them thoroughly. But, I’m just now brewing up a cup of coffee and I’m about to do so. Still, it looks to me like the same things I’ve read before about bad male behavior, that basically it comes down to it being a social problem.
I must disagree. While not all males commit mass murders, most are violent. It is their Y chromosome, the fundamental defects in the male and their endocrine systems that produce so much testosterone, which are to blame. Take away those things and we’d have no mass shooters and little violence, at all.
The male is defective to begin with, their social issues (such as the redundant “toxic masculinity”) may exacerbate these defects, but they are not causal.
If that were true the most powerful empires would not use violence.
Agreed. Also, women haven’t resorted to mass violence in our attempts to change our powerlessness. Arendt reminds me in some respects of Ayn Rand: a formidable intellect, but sometimes broken logic.
I thought that Arendt quote was good in the sense that men who batter ‘feel’ powerless and their toxic masculinity tells them to beat up on those smaller and weaker to get a fix of power but it’s not applicable to women, at all.
Yes, it does seem to speak about men.
I agree with WOOW that biology is the root cause, though I imagine we both also agree that violent predispositions in men can be managed with social controls in a non-male-dominated society. What personally convinced me of these two ideas was studies in ethology (animal studies) comparing chimp and human behavior, which showed chimp raids and rapes with very similar behavioral features, indicating a biological basis, but also studies of other human societies that ours in which there was much less violence when there were non-violent social mores and controls.
In my (U.S.) society, our social controls are sometimes lacking, sometimes gross instruments (like overflowing prisons), and strangely ineffective. The inconsistencies in these social controls lead some to say that violence is tolerated as an outlet, a reward, and an intimidation factor in spite of all our fine talk and our putting men of color away to suffer the violence of prison. That to me is the definiton of rape culture – a culture that says it’s trying to stop violence while at the very same time tolerating it with a shrug.
The best book I’ve read so far on the topic of the biological roots of male violence is “Demonic Males” by Wrangham and Peterson, primatologists and evolutionary biologists. It came out in 1996 and in spite of being very well-written and with extensive citations and notes. has not received the attention it deserves, I would think for political reasons. Since the main feminist line since the 1990s has been strict social constructionism and these sciences contradict that theory, feminists as well as religionists and those who want to bury the problem have not pursued this information.
Another book from 1996 that has strongly impressed me is James Gilligan’s “Violence”. Dr. Gilligan, a psychiatrist, spent twenty-five years treating men who committed murders, trying to understand the roots of violence. His theory is complicated and includes both biological and social facets and I can’t go into it here, but he believes we would do best by treating violence as a public health (medical) problem rather than a moral or judicial problem. Here’s his final paragraph:
“The fundamental challenge for our time, I believe, is to break the link between civilization and patriarchy so that we can continue to receive the benefits of the former without having to pay the costs of the latter. If humanity [sic] is to evolve beyond the propensity toward violence that now threatens our very survival as a species, then it can only do so by recognizing the extent to which the patriarchal code of honor and shame generates and obligates male violence. If we wish to bring this violence under control, we need to begin by reconstituting what we mean by both masculinity and femininity.”
In the case of Dylann Roof, there are the usual claims going to be made that cover up the roots of violence again. A popular writer on a tradcon blog, Milo Yiannopoulos on breitbart.com, has just written an article arguing that it’s because feminists are giving young boys psychotropic medicines, which leads to this violence when the repression of their natural “boisterous” behavior becomes too much. He carefully fails to mention that women are far, far more likely to receive psychotropic medicine prescriptions – about twice as many women as men take them in the US – but women aren’t committing these crimes. The obvious problem is the “boisterous” part – but you can’t blame male nature on feminists, so he wasn’t about to go there.
So whether it’s going to be guns, mental illness, single mother, prescription drugs, the KKK, the feminists, whatever the apologias are this time around – at bottom, it’s that thing nobody wants to look at. Except we do, now and then.
I think most of us here know exactly why males are violent but I am very interested in the biological question. I’ve been thinking about whether Testosterone makes them violent. I once watched a transfemale talk about taking T and becoming completely zoned out, snappy and violent towards her gf. She said she couldn’t feel her emotions and so on. She said it was so bad she stopped taking T because it was ruining her.
I’m sure we can develop societies whereby we recognize T for what it is but as you say, have social controls so males are taught not to be violent.
On that Michael Kimmel study linked to above, it is such a relief to read this:
“Most important for our argument is the fact that these studies have all missed gender. They use such broad terminology as “teen violence,” “youth violence,” “gang violence,” “suburban violence,” and “violence in the schools” as though girls are equal participants in this violence. Conspicuously absent is any mention of just who these youth or teens are who have committed the violence. They pay little or no attention to the obvious fact that all the school shootings were committed by boys—masculinity is the single greatest risk factor in school violence. This uniformity cuts across all other differences among the shooters: Some came from intact families, others from single-parent homes; some boys had acted violently in the past, others were quiet and unsuspecting; and some boys also expressed rage at their parents (two killed their parents the same morning), whereas others seemed to live in happy families. ”
How many times have I cringed reading the mainstream scientific articles that jump through flaming hoops rather than say this glaring and crucial thing. It’s the clearest example of how culture-bound and tied to the male-dominant narrative the sciences still are. We’re never going to lessen violent behavior so long as our scientists keep their heads in the sand on this.
These white males become ‘lone nuts’ with psychiatric problems whereby the media says they ‘snap.’ This is wrong. These males PLAN their actions and do come from healthy family backgrounds. Most of these males played video games in their rooms all damn day and night and the scientists say this causes desensitization to killing. However, the overarching issue IS gender but you’ll never hear CNN or Fox say that males are violent because of it. Sad because male violence could be helped.
And the statistic of just hjow many school shootings there are in the USA makes for sad reading: http://everytown.org/article/schoolshootings/ an average of 1 a week. 😦
If this isn’t an argument for gun control, I don’t know what is. Apparently all these people are acceptable casualties.
Yes, like Elliot Rodgers. He didn’t go nuts. He recited his plan to kill, calmly on video, then carried out his plans (he didn’t get to shoot up a sorority house, but still managed to kill people because women weren’t servicing his entitled ego.
Snapped?
No.
I actually saw FOX news try to spin the shooting as anti-Christian (victims were in a church, see?) no shit, that’s what they did. They ignored the racism (just like they always pretend sexism is no longer a thing) and — oh, and white males are an endangered species that should be protected at all costs…even if they’re murderers. Poor entitled white men. Everyone else can eat shit and die.
That’s FOX in a nutshell.
The employment of force is seen differently depending on who is employing it.
If the powerful employ force they’re seen as justified.
If the powerless employ force they’re seen as criminal.
Starhawk calls violence “the imposition of power-over”. It may or may not involve employing direct force, and not all force is violence. A supervisor in a factory imposing a speed-up on an assembly line is committing violence because if you don’t go along with the speed-up you could lose your job and hence your home and your access to food. A lone woman meeting an invading soldier at the front door with a shotgun is not committing violence because if she didn’t point a gun at him he’d likely rape her and then burn down her house. As has happened too many times in war.
Our laws also recognize the difference between violence and self-defensive force to a limited extent. Whether you are judged a murderer depends greatly on your intentions–if it can be shown you defended yourself, charges are often dropped.
Roof, obviously, employed violence. If he’d really felt powerless over the people in that church he would have just stayed home and complained on the Internet.
More nerd rage. Every gamer I’ve ever had contact with is a woman-hating slob, and many of them secretly desire to actually be women.
I thought that too.
Yes.
Fuck, I’m really kicking myself for searching for his image. That face. That bowl haircut. I need eye bleach.
So they can finally own a women…even if it’s themselves.
Yep. I notice how he thought women were his property like MRA’s and he also was doing the typical ‘male protection of HIS women’ which always is male violence against women.
“It is clear to me that their is an intersection between feminism and racism.
If this is the case FEMINISM IS RACISM.”
Non-sequitur dude.
Let’s look carefully at this intersection. So much suffering occurs as a result of this intersection.
How sad.
Yes, there is an intersection between race and feminism.
The intersection is that historically-oppressed groups attempt to assert their full humanity.
Yes, feminism is racism (Black egalitarianism).
The shooter, thinking he owns every woman, screamed that blacks rape women — then proceeded to kill innocent women (and innocent men) with his gun. He’s a white guy. White guys rape women all the time.
People blame the victim to absolve the white guy all the time. If a rape victim has been drugged into unconsciousness, people still find a way to blame the woman for what the fucked up white guy did. Proof is all over the internet.
When something bad happens to women, it’s the fault of feminism, says MRA, white dude assholes. No, don’t point the finger at the real culprits. Nope. Hence the birth of the following phrases:
“Not all men….”
“What about the menz…”
“Women do that tooooo….”
Distraction replaces honest analysis. Don’t look at us, MRAs plea, bad things happen to other people because they asked for it. White guys who are entitled and toxic should be pitied because they don’t get everything they want. And because they own guns. I’ve read posts were apologists explain away George Sodini’s actions as, “He shot innocent women because he wasn’t getting any. I know how he feels.”
No shit, that’s a direct quote from the cesspool known as YouTube. It’s all up on the Internet. Women deserve to be killed because a malcontent, asocial, racist, misogynistic loser has the sads. Look out everyone, a hateful white guy isn’t getting everything he wants. When he kills, it’s his victims’ fault.
Fucked up losers.
Very true, mortadella, thanks for your comment. Sodini’s acts of terror require
close analysis. He’s a model of violence against women.
Referring to the discussion of guns above, I’ve thought a bit about the notion of arming women. But look what happened to Marissa Alexander: She put a shot into the CEILING to warn her abusive ex-husband and now she’s under home confinement with an electronic bracelet on her ankle which she has to pay for. If we think women should be armed — and I’m fairly clear on this — we need to also be prepared to defend women who choose to defend themselves. Guns are great equalizers if you are prepared to use them, and that is key. You would never want to have a gun or point a gun at someone unless you were prepared to use it, otherwise it may end up being used against you.
I’m just happy to see someone discuss this! I see a lot of writing about what is done to women, but very little about how to fight back. I took a self-defense class in 1971 with my sister, have protected myself with my large doggy friends, and have thought seriously about arming myself as I am home alone at nights in an isolated area (with a crazed neighbor who bears more than a passing resemblance to Dylan Roof).
If you’re interested, look up Warrior Sisters on Facebook. They do work in this area.
Would love to, but don’t do Facebook. Why, oh why, can’t people have websites?